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Post subject: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:48 am
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Hi.
Some guidance on the options for recording Fender Mustang to a PC.
I’m posting this in the hope it helps some others who, like me, are fairly new to the Mustang range and have had some trouble finding the info I wanted. So I’ve done some experimenting recording from my mustang IV V2 to a PC, trying the different routing options. I’m no expert, but hopefully this will be a good starting point. The only option I didn’t test was using a Mic, as I need silent recording.

Option 1: Headphones jack.
Guitar > Mustang > Headphones jack (2.5mm jack to ¼ inch jack)> emu 0404 USB interface> PC (Reaper 64)
Pros
• FX / cabinet is sent to record (delay etc)
• Silent recording my setting master volume to zero
• use the channel volume to control the signal level sent from the amp.
Cons
• The signal you get is a little weaker than some of the options, so my USB interface channel vol was set to 50%.
• Fine line between strong signal and peaks clipping.

Option 2: Send Out.
Guitar > Mustang > Send out left / right (¼ inch jack)> emu 0404 USB interface> PC (Reaper 64)
Pros
• Silent recording my setting master volume to zero
• use the channel volume to control the signal level sent from the amp.
• Strong clear signal, so my USB interface channel vol was set to 30%.

Cons
• No FX / cabinet is sent to record (delay etc), you just get the amp.

Option 3: XLR Line Out.
Guitar > Mustang > Line Out left / right (XLR cable, ground lift button out)> emu 0404 USB interface> PC (Reaper 64)
Pros
• FX / cabinet is sent to record (delay etc)
• Silent recording my setting master volume to zero
• use the channel volume to control the signal level sent from the amp.
• Strong clear signal, so my USB interface channel vol was set to 30%.

Cons

• None that I noticed.

Option 4: USB.
Guitar > Mustang > USB cable > PC (Reaper 64)
Pros
• FX / cabinet is sent to record (delay etc)
• Silent recording my setting master volume to zero
• use the channel volume to control the signal level sent from the amp.

Cons
• ASIO setup very much dependent on you hardware and DAW. Can really limit the monitoring options and can also be very fiddle
• Audio quality not as rounded or clear as other options
• Easy to get clipping


.
Verdict:
I appreciate many would like the USB recording option, and it’s probably fine for many people but I just could not get it to deliver as clear signal as I’ve heard. With my hardware configuration is also meant having to change my fundamental project settings in my DAW so would be fiddly.

Therefore I would opt for recording via the XLR Line out (stereo or mono). It delivers a very clear and controllable signal, including FX and cab modelling and I don’t have to change the configuration of my projects input / output setup.


Hope this helps. If you have any advice on improving the USB option then let us know!
P


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:04 am
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Thanks for the notes.

I agree on the USB out. Yeah digital out is all fine and dandy but I hate USB recording. The minute you are spending too much time putzing around with ASIO or Aggregate I/O (MAC) its not worth what little you MIGHT notice. Now if the Mustang had an SPDIF or better yet, an AES (Mustang Pro maybe?) out to go to an Audio Interface, well there's a different story.

I'm using the mustang II with Protools 9 and Garageband and the Headphone out works fine for me.

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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:06 am
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Quote:
Headphone jack ... Silent recording by setting master volume to zero

Huh? don't you always get silent recording this way, because the headphone jack mutes the speaker regardless of the master volume setting.

Quote:
Send out ... No FX / cabinet is sent to record (delay etc), you just get the amp

Huh again? The fx loop on the Mustang amps (nb not Floor) is after all the DSP, so includes all the effects including delay. The only thing that could be after the fx loop is the cab emulation on a Mustang V2 amp (see http://www.fender.com/en-GB/support/art ... mplifiers/)

Quote:
USB ... use the channel volume to control the signal level sent from the amp

You can also control the USB level ("USB gain" as Fender call it) on its own, without changing the preset volume.

Quote:
USB ... Audio quality not as rounded or clear as other options

I'd dispute that, you're getting digital audio directly into the PC, rather than going digital - analogue - digital.

Quote:
USB ... Easy to get clipping

This suggests the USB level is too high.

Quote:
USB ... ASIO setup very much dependent on you hardware and DAW

So I'm curious... even with your preferred XLR setup, you're still using USB audio into the PC, so what drivers are you using for that? If you don't like ASIO or can't get it to work, did you know there are normal Windows audio drivers for the Mustang's USB audio? So what's better about using a separate USB interface into your PC, than using the Mustang's direct USB audio? (A genuine question, I haven't used separate USB interfaces so am not aware of what advantages they may offer)

Final question - if you're taking analogue audio from the Mustang (via whichever socket), then why not connect that directly to the line-in socket on your PC's own soundcard? (Assuming you have one, I haven't seen a PC or (full-size)laptop for years that doesn't). What does an external analogue-to-digital-to-USB interface provide over the ADCs (that these days are all high quality high bit rate) in the PC?


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:07 am
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My take on that is this

The internal sound card is totally fine if the A/D conversion is good. I use my PT9 and Garageband straight into the mac inputs without issue. Where you’d benefit from an external device is, depending on how much you spend, more Ins and Outs, perhaps a couple of Mic Pre’s. Some of them even have built in Focusrite Pre’s. If it were my setup and I already had an external Interface and everything working, I wouldn’t bother going back and forth from USB just to use the digital. With everything going into and coming from the same box you reduce the risk of what your listening to being off sync with what your sending in. My older setup is a Digi 001 and I love that box. Unfortunately I can’t use it anymore with my Mac Desktop unless I back Rev the OS so I can run Protools 6.5 but I digress.

I think for what most people are generally doing, whatever sounds good with the least amount of hassle is the way to go. I always run into hair pulling problems when I try to get Protools to work with the USB input and when I do get it working, I get latency issue. Ideally, you’d want to crank the crap out of the amp anyway and stick an SM57 in front of it but not everyone has that luxury.

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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:17 am
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Or just record with a microphone ;)

But I feel that my Mustang V 2 with 2x12 v70 cab sounds best with the master at around 4-5 (with channel volume at 4.5-5.5), and that is quite loud 8)


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:45 am
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Hi

Good questions, which hopefully I can answer (didnt want the original post to be too long!)

1 - yes you are right, using headphones always mutes the speakers. As I'm often recording at night this is important to me.

2 - Although I though the FX loop would be post all FX, on the patches I used it seemed not to be. I had delay and other FX setup and these were not sent out to the PC. Neither was the cab emulation which I wanted. Maybe its a config that can be changed, so I'd be happy to hear your advice.

3 - With the USB recording I just had lots of problems despite spending some time problem solving. I'm running a custom build PC with an internal soundcard disabled, everything is run via my USB e-MU 0404. I have several different sets of ASIO drivers I've been running without problem for years. If I want to use Fender USB recording I have to disable all these and run Fenders drivers, which doesnt allow me to use all the other deviced I have connected. No othe rdrivers detect the Fender. Despite playing around with levels etc, I just dont seem to get the same quality audio via USB than I have heard other people can get, I wish I knew why.

Anyhow, give the time and effort to try and get USB working, my choice was just to use XLR, just 1 cable to plug in and I'm away recording. Is the extra effort of USB worth it?


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:22 am
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Quote:
The internal sound card is totally fine if the A/D conversion is good


The mustangs already have A/D conversion:

Analog input -> A/D -> digital amp modelling -> D/A -> Output/Headphones/XLR


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:27 am
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yes but if you go from any analog out into a crappy soundcard regardless of the source and cards A/D conversion is crap... you get crap.

once the mustang is recorded from one of the Analog holes its A/D-D/A conversion is completely out of the equation in terms of this driver or that driver. The same goes if you were to stick a mic in front of the cone.

If we’re talking about staying digital. Sure I get the want for that, but the to the OP’s point and my opinion is that if your set up works is dealing with the USB port worth it?

I’d be willing to be there’s not a whole lot of folks that could listen to a recording and be able to tell if it was done via the analog out or the USB out.

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Last edited by captainc on Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:49 am
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Good points about D/A A/D conversion, especially the more you do it the worse (potentially) the final quality.

Given that direct USB would in theory be best, can anyone give good advice on how they have set it up successfully?

My kit is Mustang IV v2, Windows 7 64 bit OS, plenty of RAM and fast disks. I run ASIO4All drivers in Reaper 64 bit, with an external e-MU 0404 USB sound interface for inputs and output monitoring.

Thanks
P


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:29 pm
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theredeye_uk wrote:
2 - Although I though the FX loop would be post all FX, on the patches I used it seemed not to be. I had delay and other FX setup and these were not sent out to the PC. Neither was the cab emulation which I wanted. Maybe its a config that can be changed, so I'd be happy to hear your advice.


The FX loop has two modes: "Normal" and "Looper". The modes go like this:

Normal: guitar->pre effects->amp->post effects->FX loop->cab simulation
Looper: guitar->pre effects->amp->post effects->cab simulation->FX loop

So use the Util menu on the amp to put the FX loop into Looper mode if you want the cab simulation to be included in your FX Send output.


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:29 am
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theredeye_uk wrote:
Good points about D/A A/D conversion, especially the more you do it the worse (potentially) the final quality.

Given that direct USB would in theory be best, can anyone give good advice on how they have set it up successfully?

My kit is Mustang IV v2, Windows 7 64 bit OS, plenty of RAM and fast disks. I run ASIO4All drivers in Reaper 64 bit, with an external e-MU 0404 USB sound interface for inputs and output monitoring.

Thanks
P

Following the standard instructions for using Ableton Lite 8/9 works great when recording to my Win7 Lenovo laptop. I use the Fender ASIO from Fender's support page. The results, for me, are not too brittle. This may be due to my use of a hollow body or it could be my aural sensibilities just like it.

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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:05 am
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Thanks for all the feedback. I'm going to test some more tonight.

I'll change the config for the FX send to see if I can get that to be post cabinet impulse.

I'll also see if I can get USB working properly. I need to find a solution when I can record via USB but still monitor and hear my other tracks played back through my external USB soundcard. This I can see being the biggest issue, 2 USB devices, both for sound and both needing separate ASIO drivers.

Has anyone else ever managed this?


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Post subject: Re: Tips + testing - recording mustang IV to PC
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:53 am
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theredeye_uk wrote:
This I can see being the biggest issue, 2 USB devices, both for sound and both needing separate ASIO drivers.

Has anyone else ever managed this?


I agree,

i think this is where you'll probably see your latency issues if any. Best to record and monitor through same device

Another thing to keep in mind is you'll want to make sure the sample rate and bit depth of your project is set the same as that of the mustang. I believe that's 16 Bit 44.1 KHz but i have yet to see confirmation of that spec. If samplerates don't' match, you might hear clicks and pops in your audio.

Good Luck

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