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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:36 am
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
Fender SuperSonic 60 tube combo amp

Traitor! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:07 am
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Aspiring Musician
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HIO wrote:
Neimenljivi wrote:
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
Fender SuperSonic 60 tube combo amp

Traitor! :lol:


I owned the M IV, but sold it and got the SS60 and I do not regret the decision :) M is a fine line of amps, and definitely the best ones within that price range, but it lacks something that the SS60 has - spark, mojo, cojonas and other intangible things that make the difference between liking and loving an amp :)

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:56 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:43 pm
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Location: Here In Oregon
Neimenljivi wrote:
HIO wrote:
Neimenljivi wrote:
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
Fender SuperSonic 60 tube combo amp

Traitor! :lol:


I owned the M IV, but sold it and got the SS60 and I do not regret the decision :) M is a fine line of amps, and definitely the best ones within that price range, but it lacks something that the SS60 has - spark, mojo, cojonas and other intangible things that make the difference between liking and loving an amp :)

Like I have said many times in the past. "Opinions are like ears and most of us have two of them."

Not to be argumentative, and I am very happy you found your soul mate.:P First, I found the Supersonic 22 to be too loud. The SuperSonic 60 is LOUD and scares me to even think about it and it is heavy like a Twin. My tube Twin and my Deluxes have a much better clean sound than the SuperSonics and the burn channel is just not my cup of tea at all.

I once toured the Mesa Boogie plant and headquarters in Petaluma and met everybody including the founder and owner. They were all truly nice people and they built me a very expensive custom amp.

I spent two weeks trying to make this beauty talk to me in the words I wanted to hear and unfortunately had to return her. They tested the amp to see if it was functioning properly and it was. They then said that some people are just partial to the Fender sound which I definitely was, along with Marshall.

My point is that the SuperSonics are Fender's answer to a high gain amp like the Mesa Boogie which just wasn't going into my bag of tricks.

I will admit on paper and before I listened to the SuperSonics, I was very excited about getting the 22 but the Mustangs are so much more versatile especially at lower volume and I could care less how little they cost and i have tried most of the modellers out there and it wasn't until the Mustangs came to fruition that I bought in.

My New Year's motto has been.

"The best amp out there is the one you want to play the most"

I love being able to go from a clean Fender Twin with a tad of reverb to one a little different with some delay and then head over to a Marshall with a click of a button and then on to a Princeton with maybe some chorus and then on to a Deluxe, etc., etc.............................

The Mustangs take pedals really well and I guess i have become the Mustang line's biggest fanbois. Ouch! :oops: I never thought I would ever say that. :oops:

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:56 am
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Hehe I agree :P
Well I'm still waiting for a chance to really crank this baby up (without attenuating the power through FX loop send & return levels), but I keep it on roughly the same volume as I kept my M IV and it works wonderfully (both the band sessions and the gigs I've done, although there weren't as many as I would have liked due to the drummer's operation). Like you said, everyone likes a different tone. Heck, unless you have the very same guitar as I do, it won't sound the same with the same EQ settings anyway, so that's another thing to take in account :P
The cleans on the amp are certainly different than those of the Twin or Deluxe, but they can sound awesome as well. I changed the string gauge on my Gibson LP to .011s and the clean tone on the Gibson is as awesome as it can get, a full & rich tone. I wasn't nowhere near as satisfied with it before I changed the string gauge from .010s. On my Fender Strat, well, I've got the same .010s that I had previously on my LP and well for pretty much every Fender fan the question is clear - sparkling cleans? Yes, sir!
The Burn channel is something I like a lot. Of course, you do need to tune in the EQ to your satisfaction, but you can have anything sort of bluesy overdrive to metalish hi-gain on it. My amp is set for rock/hard rock type of overdrive and if I need less, I just turn the volume pots on my guitar to get down to bluesy overdrive. I was missing a little something during overdriven solos and I suspected what it was - a pinch of delay. Now that I bought the delay, I see I was right as it was exactly what I was missing.

As far as weight goes - it's around the same weight as M IV, but actually feels lighter as it's a bit smaller.
I do agree more expensive =/= always better. For instance, the delay I bought last week cost 185€ or something (T-Rex Duck Tail delay) and I liked it way better than the T-Rex Replica which costs 360€ and is considered by many as "THE" delay. I also had a friend with me, who also plays guitar a bit, and he also thought it sounded better.

When I bought the amp, I was just testing whether it works as well as it should and the overall sound. At the price it was being sold, I figured I could still sell it and make at least 200€ profit if I didn't like the sound in a month's time. But I fell in love with the sound almost instantly :P The only real downside is that tube amps require maintenance.

No doubt, the M have a wider tonal range with all the built-in amp, cab and effects simulations than the SS, but like I mentioned before, unless you play covers only and really want to nail the sound of each and every one, chances are you won't be using more than 10 presets, with 5 of them actually being different in sound, rather than in volume (boosts for solos).
I don't know about the SS22, but the SS60 is very versatile (compared to most tube amps) - the bassman and vibrolux clean channels (which also affect the burn channel) are very different. Vibrolux is funky-ish with lots of top end, a bit thinner sound, very sparkling, while the bassman has way more presence, power, mid and bass-range and also is a bit louder (so you can use it for solos or something). The differences aren't as big in the burn channel, but still noticeable. The reverb on the amp is awesome, no need to have any reverb stomp effect. The FX loop can either attenuate the power (if you want to get to natural tube overdrive at bearable levels, or to not crank the amp up as much but be able to play during the night, that's how quiet it can get - obviously not if you push the amp in natural tube overdrive), or boost your signal for solos, so you don't need a booster. The only effects I currently have in my signal chain are the KORG Polytune foot tuner, Dunlop GCBF95 Crybaby and, the most recent addition, T-Rex Duck Tail delay. I might buy a chorus if I find one I like, and will also need to buy a fuel tank. But I don't really need anything else. Sure, I might buy something else further down the road, but it will mostly be down to GAS rather than pure need :lol:
I do agree that getting from one sound to another with 1 click instead of 3 or 4 is a way better solution and way more convenient, so M has a big advantage here :)

So don't get me wrong, I like the M line a lot. I just like the SS better. But both have their advantages over the other, while the tone remains as subjective a thing as can get thus no fair judgements can be done in that territory :)

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:23 pm
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Obviously everyone's ear, opinion and preferences differ...

I recently bought a Super-Sonic (the 22 watt combo). I love the sound, it's brilliant on both clean and 'burn' settings. At one level yes it's an "identical" sound to the Mustang, and my Mustang has the versatility of lots of other sounds too.

However, the Mustang sounds 'sterile' whereas the Super-Sonic feels/sounds more earthy/alive, and is thus (to me at least) more fun to play through. The Mustang sounds like a perfect facsimile of the real thing, but doesn't sound like the real thing. Can't describe it better than that. I suppose an analogy would be having a high-res digital photo of the Mona Lisa, versus having the real thing.

And no I'm not a tube-snob, I was absolutely convinced of the benefits of modelling amps - and still am. I do wonder how much of the S-S's sound is down to the generally higher-quality build and components, rather than being valve/tube? It is after all three-to-four times the price of the equivalent Mustang.

I'm sure in a crowded gig or on a recording, the difference would be less (or not at all) noticeable. But for solo playing in an otherwise quiet room, the Super-Sonic is an absolute joy. I wouldn't say it's an ultra-high-gain amp - certainly not in the 'metal' category (although I've seen people demoing it that way); it does everything from super-clean through Neil-Young-ish "dirty-deluxe" through rich Bassman-clean to nice bluesy-crunch and gritty valve overdrive.

I find it easier (more intuitive) to dial-in a range of tones on the S-S than with the Mustang controls - even though that has the same two 'gain' options for its Super-Sonic model. The different character of the two gain controls is far more evident on the real thing than on the Mustang.

Yes I still love my Mustang. Yes I still think it's the best amp you can buy for the money. Yes I'm keeping it for the wide range of things it can do. But I hope it doesn't mind if I have a 'bit on the side' with my S-S too!


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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:25 am
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Exactly mate, couldn't agree with you more about some things. Mustang does sound off, compared to the real thing, when you play full chords (so not just the power chords), though. But for single notes, it does get quite close. Although, like you mentioned, the gain knobs on the M's model of SS aren't as diverse and as versatile as the SS's and in reality, the M's SS model doesn't cover the full tonal spectrum of the real SS.

I suppose, all in all, the general components are of higher quality. But I reckon the build quality is better/pricier than the M's as well, so the total price difference accounts for both.
I don't think of it as a full on metal amp, that's why I said metal-ish tones (with both gains cranked up, possibly add a compressor or additional distortion effect before the amp and you'll get pretty damn close to a full on metal amp though, but of course it depends on your guitar and playing style as well).

I've recorded with both amps and the immediate difference is quite big actually. Although when you account for all the post-production that goes on afterwards, you could get pretty much the same tone with both of them I suppose. Although I enjoyed the experience more with SS, and that's ultimately all that matters :P

In a live situation I do think SS still has the edge over M. It just has that 'presence' - and I also find myself fine-tuning the EQs in response to a different ambient when I'm playing live, something I didn't do when I used M simply because I'd have to go through multiple banks and fine-tune each preset that I used separately, which would take a lot more time.

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:19 am
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:50 pm
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From everything I've read about the loudness of tube amps (jumping from nothing to REALLY loud at 2) I have concluded I might need to just stick with my mustangs (I have a 3 and 4) until I live in a house or have access to a space where I can play loud one day.

Right now I play in an apartment and I like how mustang lets me have good tones (IMO) at a quieter volume.

I still have this feeling that I need to own a real Deluxe Reverb at some point.

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:33 am
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Location: England
Quote:
the loudness of tube amps

I'd agree in general, but the Super-Sonic does work at quiet settings. On the 'burn' channel the two 'gain' controls set the tone, and the 'volume' acts as the same as a 'master volume' on other amps. So you can get the tone at whisper-quiet levels all the way up to window-rattling volumes. Similarly the clean channel (which is really two channels, the exact same circuitry as a Deluxe (according to Fender) plus some other stuff to emulate a Bassman) also works great right across the volume range.


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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:20 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Here In Oregon
It seems like I have been outclassed and exposed for the plant that I am. I have been working under cover for the National Society for the Hearing Impaired (NSHI). 8)

No seriously, what does Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Jeff Beck, Paul Gilbert, Neal Schon, Sting, Bono, George Martin, Brian Wilson, Phil Collins, Cher, Barbra Streisand, Steve Martin, Engelbert Humberdinck and a list that goes on forever have in common other than their talent and love for music?

Scroll down for the answer.
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. Keep going
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. Debilitating hearing loss and tinnitus from excessive sound pressure levels.


Months back I did a test between my tube amps and my Mustangs and reported to this forum how I felt the tube amps sounded ever slightly better than the Mustangs but when you add in all of the bonus features including that the Mustangs sound better at lower VOLUMES that was the clincher for me especially when you play and practice a whole lot.

I have so many untold stories about lives hindered by hearing loss and what is exceptionally painful for someone involved in music on both a physical and emotional level.

With all of this said, I am glad you guys love your tube amps but I am begging you to be careful with volume.

The SuperSonics can get really LOUD. Deluxes too. The Twin??? Huh, did you say something?

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:53 pm
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Skirt So Plain - like scott-uk said, the SSs have a good tone while being still quiet enough not to wake up a baby (if you find the volume knobs too sensitive and don't wish to use guitar volume pot to bring the volume down, you can put a patch cable in FX loop, decrease FX send & return levels [which will basically attenuate the power, thus making overall volume knobs less sensitive, but you can also push the amp into natural tube overdrive and still have normal volume levels using the send & return levels]) - but no amp will sound great at that volume, not even the Mustangs. From my experience, both amps get their tonal character, so to speak, at roughly the same volume. The SS60 might need to be just a tad louder, before it gets that punch, but it's still in the same ballpark.

HIO - I agree, one must protect his ears. Like I said, I thought my M IV speakers started breathing at roughly the same volume level as the SS60's, although (especially in rooms not sound-isolated -> we have the privilege of practicing in a home recording studio, so the sound in the room is awesome) some kind of ear protection is always recommendable (we've got a very loud drummer, so it's not just a case of turning the amps down a bit :P). I'm seriously contemplating the idea of buying some sort of protection (not just the foamy tamponish ear plugs one can buy in a pharmacy for 5€), but need to do more research before I do buy it.

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:24 am
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Interesting discussion...particularly in my case. As of today we are replacing an SS60 with a Mustang III v.2. in the band I play in. This is for the other guitar player in the band, not myself (I already play a Mustang IV). We've been evaluating this move for months now and the ultimate decision came down to being able to consistently manage the volume levels on the SS60.

There were several other factors in the mix that were pushing the decision as well such as a constantly faulty reverb that never seemed to get fixed. But like a lot of bands we have everything on stage mic'd, so we really have to have some control over our stage volume to make sure our mix through the PA is accurate. The volumes we would get from the SS60 during sound checks were not always what we'd get during performance, particularly when switching between channels. The sensitivity of the clean channel's volume has always been a problem at the levels we play at on stage. The clean channel's volume seems to be EXTREMELY sensitive. Apparently there are some technical tricks that could be used to mitigate this as someone mentioned earlier, but it comes down to..WHY? We can fix all of it with just a simple amp change?

I can't speak to the tone difference between the two amps as I apparently wasn't blessed with ears like a bat. To me, if I achieve the tone that inspires me to play better I'm a happy man.

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:41 am
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dunedindragon wrote:
I can't speak to the tone difference between the two amps as I apparently wasn't blessed with ears like a bat. To me, if I achieve the tone that inspires me to play better I'm a happy man.


It all boils down to this - whether you like something or you don't. I like green. My GF likes teal. Who is to say one colour is better than the other? It's different. If you want to go for a calming effect while using colour in a graphic, you'll use green instead of teal. Same goes for the amps, a lot of it is down to personal preference and your needs. In my case, SS60 works better for me than the M. I like the tone more and frankly I like everything more (except the maintenance and price, of course :lol: ). The only thing I wish SS60 would be able to do is engage more effects with just one click on the footswitch (although, I can do that for solos when engaging the FX loop and already have the stuff in the FX loop I need, on.. Currently it's just the delay back there and with engaging the FX loop, due to my setup of send/return levels, it's the same as if I clicked on a booster and delay simultaneously). Atm I still don't need more than 2 or 3 max (but in a very rare case) clicks to be done in as short a time as possible.
I haven't had as much gigs with SS60 as I would have liked, but in that couple of gigs, the volume levels weren't problematic for me. I just set both channels + send/return levels based on what sounded good to me (volume differences) and what I needed and if I was told to get it down - yep, it does take a bit more doing than with a M (because all your relative volume levels compared to one another are already saved and because you only need to use your master volume), but wasn't as difficult. Heck, if I didn't use FX send/return levels as a booster, I could use those as an overall master volume (for both clean and burn channel).

So if your guitarist had that much trouble, I reckon more was wrong rather than just the reverb tank - which is also a shame and definitely puts one off to use something other rather than an amp that keeps breaking :wink:

Hope the new M III works out better for you guys, mate. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Warning!!!
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:31 am
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Aspiring Musician
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dunedindragon wrote:
Interesting discussion...particularly in my case. As of today we are replacing an SS60 with a Mustang III v.2. in the band I play in. This is for the other guitar player in the band, not myself (I already play a Mustang IV). We've been evaluating this move for months now and the ultimate decision came down to being able to consistently manage the volume levels on the SS60.

Interested to hear more about your findings along with this new integration both pros and cons.
dunedindragon wrote:
To me, if I achieve the tone that inspires me to play better I'm a happy man.

That kind of goes with my quote last week. "The best amp out there is the one you want to play the most" <g>

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