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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:15 pm
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I might be ready to back off on the whole stereo thing. Let me summarize my ideal setup:

- Good standalone combo modeling amp for use without Amplitube.
- Good, clean power amplification for Amplitube models when I feel like dragging out the laptop and audio interface
- Loud enough to jam with friends, able to go quiet enough to jam at home
- Small enough to carry from room to room, and up and down stairs
- MP3 playback capability for backing tracks

Note that the first requirement rules out studio monitors, powered PA speakers, etc. I'm hoping the rest of the requirements can be met by the Mustang III, as it is certainly more easily lugged around than the IV.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:41 pm
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You want a Mustang 3 version 2. There,... I said it :!:

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:56 pm
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"- I discovered that 40-watt and higher tube amps are right out. Those are even louder and I don't see how anyone could ever play them at home."

Remember, on a tube amp - the higher the volume the more you push or "saturate" the tubes which breaks them up and gives you distortion. Most people who love tube amps love them because they can get that "sweet spot" where the amount of saturation and breakup is just right for their sound. On anything higher than a 15 watt tube amp - the volume for that perfect amount of saturation and breakup is going to be too loud for home use. For home use, tube amp users usually stick to 5 - 15 watt range or else equip their higher wattage tube amps with attenuators or power soaks.

However, on a solid-state modeling amp... there are no tubes to saturate. The breakup and distortion is modeled. So you get the same distortion at any number on the master volume dial... even at low volumes. Conversely, you ALSO get the same crystal clean at any volume when you use a clean amp model (whereas tube amps generally get dirtier as the volume goes up.) So with a solid state amp, you can get an outrageously powerful amp (like my 150 watt 4x12 speaker Mustang V - which is way more than I ever needed but I wanted to feel like a badass in front of a half-stack in my basement!) and use it at home quite easily by just not tuning the master volume above a 3 or 4. But you can also use it in live shows in a large concert hall!

From everything you have mentioned, it sounds like a Mustang III version 2 will suit you the best if you decide to go with a Mustang.

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:34 pm
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Made one more trip to Guitar Center today, this time with my own guitar and laptop with Amplitube.

The most shocking (and pleasing) discovery was that the Amplitube models really still sound great through the AUX IN on the Mustang IV, Mustang III, Blackstar HT-5R, and even the little Yamaha THR10. Now I'm starting to wonder if I really needed a "professional" audio interface with balanced output cables and a line-level FX Loop Return on the amp. Everything sounds pretty darned good even with just a Rocksmith USB cable and using the headphones out connected to the AUX IN on the amp. I have noticed though that when I plug my MIDI floor controller into the same PC it introduces a lot of noise to the stereo output. I'm assuming my Scarlett 2i2 interface will come in handy for eliminating that.

The other pleasing discovery was that both the III and the IV can be made to sound very good at low volumes, once I understood how the presets work. When you load up a preset, the preset volume and gain is often cranked way up, even if the physical dials don't reflect it. But by turning the physical volume dial, and sometimes gain, down, I was then able to play with the master volume at a comfortable level and still have things sounds great. So if anyone is worried about home use, I think size is the only issue...volume can be managed.

Oh, one other discovery...now I see why most people still don't use something like Amplitube in live settings. I felt like a complete tool lugging my laptop around inside Guitar Center. I already feel out of place as a dorky white collar 40-ish guy when the 20-somethings there were literally showing each other their tattoos, and the laptop just makes it worse. :P


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:23 pm
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WulfGangii wrote:
I was concerned with how "stereo" a 2x12 stereo amp would sound and PITA confirms my suspicions. Glad I didn't go that route.


Please keep in mind what I said is pure hearsay on my part, no personal experience with it myself.

Quote:
One of my major concerns was? Stereo.
I wanted TRUE stereo. I just like it I guess :)

And if the OP is like me he wants to hear what is in his head or, what he thinks it should sound like.
@ The Original Poster (OP)
If you already have/use modeling software why not just go active/powered speakers (like I did) or the Tech21 like you mentioned, or, a 12" combo amp (x2) for true nice stereo sound (if it's something YOU want).


On the one hand, I think you're right that separate cabs are the way to go, because you can place them yourself to optimize what you hear. On the other hand, and this may or may not be important to you, I've also heard it said that once you do that, you are the *only* one who can ever hear that optimized experience, because no other listener will be in the sweet spot of the stereo image.

Not quite the same as, say, listening to a mix through headphones, where every listener will hear the same thing.

(Again, you can feel free to treat this as hearsay :D , but it makes sense to me.)

PITA


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:23 pm
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PITA wrote:
WulfGangii wrote:
I was concerned with how "stereo" a 2x12 stereo amp would sound and PITA confirms my suspicions. Glad I didn't go that route.


Please keep in mind what I said is pure hearsay on my part, no personal experience with it myself.

Quote:
One of my major concerns was? Stereo.
I wanted TRUE stereo. I just like it I guess :)

And if the OP is like me he wants to hear what is in his head or, what he thinks it should sound like.
@ The Original Poster (OP)
If you already have/use modeling software why not just go active/powered speakers (like I did) or the Tech21 like you mentioned, or, a 12" combo amp (x2) for true nice stereo sound (if it's something YOU want).


On the one hand, I think you're right that separate cabs are the way to go, because you can place them yourself to optimize what you hear. On the other hand, and this may or may not be important to you, I've also heard it said that once you do that, you are the *only* one who can ever hear that optimized experience, because no other listener will be in the sweet spot of the stereo image.

Not quite the same as, say, listening to a mix through headphones, where every listener will hear the same thing.

(Again, you can feel free to treat this as hearsay :D , but it makes sense to me.)

PITA



I got my MIV V2 in October. In my case, the 2x12 speaker configuration and stereo capability sets it apart from the III. Recording using Ableton and listening back (or monitoring) with a good set of headphones is really amazing. Many of the effects such as delay and reverb are enhanced in stereo. I play and record solo and I am able to create far better sounding tracks thanks to the stereo.Several tracks people asked if I was overdubbing due to the stereo when in fact these were straight solo tracks in a single take.

Too loud for home use? Not at all.

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:50 pm
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Archtop Bill wrote:
I got my MIV V2 in October. In my case, the 2x12 speaker configuration and stereo capability sets it apart from the III. Recording using Ableton and listening back (or monitoring) with a good set of headphones is really amazing. Many of the effects such as delay and reverb are enhanced in stereo. I play and record solo and I am able to create far better sounding tracks thanks to the stereo.Several tracks people asked if I was overdubbing due to the stereo when in fact these were straight solo tracks in a single take.


Sure, but bear in mind that the stereo effects are available on the entire Mustang series, and you'll hear the same thing through headphones on all of them.

The stereo difference will be apparent when listening to the Mustang speakers themselves.

Quote:
Too loud for home use? Not at all.


Yep, I agree.

PITA


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:53 am
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Thoman I wouldn't worry too much about the laptop issue :D
I'm doing the same. I use it like a virtual Amplifier using Fender Fuse Software.

It's pretty neat to be able to see an amp type model, with all the dials/knobs, when you switch to that effect bank. AND it's adjustable on the fly.
*just have to remember to SAVE the setting should you need to switch to another bank and then BACK to that one*


Bouncing back to the stereo thing (seriously, no pun intended :D), it makes absolute sense to me regarding the ability to hear "stereo" when the 2 speakers are in the same cab.
Rather, the distance able to hear it in proximity to the source.

Id wager you would eventually encounter the same, as you say PITA, with 2 "satellite" speakers, if you will, also. Though at a much greater distance from the source.

My deal with stereo is, as ArchtopBill stated, is what I hear.
When I hear what it is I'm WANTING to hear, it's inspiring.
If I don't, it makes me want to find that. If I can't find it, it makes me want to stop playing. This has applied to gear as well.

A beginning player may not be able to tell the difference between cheap/low grade gear and good/great gear, but by now, I can :) and it means the difference between inspiration and ...... and... lol ...um, uninspiration? (deinspired?) think I made some new words there! :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:27 pm
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WulfGangii wrote:
Thoman I wouldn't worry too much about the laptop issue :D
I'm doing the same. I use it like a virtual Amplifier using Fender Fuse Software.


Ha, ha...thanks for the reassurance. Glad to know there are others out there with their laptops sitting on their amp.

One last question, then I promise to make up my mind on this thing. I had just about talked myself into the Mustang III because of the smaller size. But I have an opportunity to get an MIV open-box floor-model for $400. That's basically the same price as a new MIII+4-button footswitch ($330+$60=$390).

Would anyone still get the MIII over the MIV even if they were the exact same price?


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:28 pm
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thoman23 wrote:
WulfGangii wrote:
Thoman I wouldn't worry too much about the laptop issue :D
I'm doing the same. I use it like a virtual Amplifier using Fender Fuse Software.


Ha, ha...thanks for the reassurance. Glad to know there are others out there with their laptops sitting on their amp.

One last question, then I promise to make up my mind on this thing. I had just about talked myself into the Mustang III because of the smaller size. But I have an opportunity to get an MIV open-box floor-model for $400. That's basically the same price as a new MIII+4-button footswitch ($330+$60=$390).

Would anyone still get the MIII over the MIV even if they were the exact same price?


You will still need to buy the two button foot switch which comes with the III, or at least I would.

The eleven extra pounds is a big deal for me and 47 lbs. is getting really heavy along with extra width and height and personally I never go open box, ever, but I would have to hear them side by side and in some different rooms. Also, in regards to more power, I have learned that less is more and one day your ears will thank you for it. You can always run the Mustang III into a mixing board for true stereo separation and for added sound. Good luck!

I love my Mustangs!

HIO (Here In Oregon)

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:54 pm
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Thanks HIO...I think I just needed to hear one person say that they would still go with MIII even at roughly the same price. I have a really hard time passing up "good deals". :p

My choice is made then...Mustang III v2. Really appreciate everyone's input in this thread. This is essentially my first amp, so it's been a long learning process for me to even know what to look for. I have to say, seeing this active Fender community actually helped my decision as well. So did a thread I saw from back when the v2 was first released, and people had an issue with where the FX loop was placed in the signal chain. I was very impressed with Fender's level of communication on the forums and how quickly they resolved the issue with new firmware.

Can't wait to get my Mustang!


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:58 pm
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thoman23 wrote:
Thanks HIO...I think I just needed to hear one person say that they would still go with MIII even at roughly the same price. I have a really hard time passing up "good deals". :p

My choice is made then...Mustang III v2. Really appreciate everyone's input in this thread. This is essentially my first amp, so it's been a long learning process for me to even know what to look for. I have to say, seeing this active Fender community actually helped my decision as well. So did a thread I saw from back when the v2 was first released, and people had an issue with where the FX loop was placed in the signal chain. I was very impressed with Fender's level of communication on the forums and how quickly they resolved the issue with new firmware.

Can't wait to get my Mustang!


Enjoy your MIII V2; it is a great amp.

BTW: I have my Lenovo laptop sitting on the MIV every evening!

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:23 am
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Lenovo ThinkPad T60 here :)

Been a darn good laptop.

About 10 yrs old! Still going.

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:53 pm
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Read this and had to laugh:

"Oh, one other discovery...now I see why most people still don't use something like Amplitube in live settings. I felt like a complete tool lugging my laptop around inside Guitar Center. I already feel out of place as a dorky white collar 40-ish guy when the 20-somethings..."

I am 40 something beginner too. More of a bigginer than you infact. I just purchased the Mustang 3 this past Friday. My primary reasoning for not going with 4 was the size (demensions), added lbs and "wife factor" (she said wow thats big... she did mean it in the good way either :( ). I also took into consideration the future purchase of a 4 button foot swich (I haven't gotten that yet, but will once I grow some more in my playing). I move my amp from room to room and I couldnt hear a really improvement going from the 3 to the 4 (remember I am a bigner). The 4 has quite abit larger foot print and is about 10lbs heaver.

Open box for less maybe an option but looking over your posts, it really sounds like the 3 is the amp for you. You won't be desipointed with it. But only you can make that choice. Regardless after making a choice stick with it, don't continue to compare or second guess your self. Both are really nice amps. I personally never had great luck with open boxed electronic items in general. Might has well save more and get a used one- That is my opion from experience.

Either way you'll be happy. Look forward to hearing about what you got and how you like it.

Wishing you the best!


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:06 pm
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Congrats on the new amp Chilly! I actually just ordered the Mustang III v2 today. My mind was made up a while ago, but it took me until this weekend to convince my wife that an amplifier is actually a fairly reasonable thing for an electric guitar player to purchase. :P

That's good advice to be happy with my choice and not continue to compare. The thing is, I know the MIV is just way too big to be practical around the house...but there's part of me that has a hard time shaking the idea that bigger is better. But when you consider the wife acceptance factor as you mentioned, and the need to carry the amp from room to room and up and down stairs, it just became obvious that I had to go with the MIII. Can't wait for it to get here!


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