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Post subject: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:06 pm
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Hey everybody,

First post here (a little long...please bear with me!). I searched through the forums, but I'm still pretty confused by a few things and would appreciate some help. I don't own a Mustang yet but I am VERY interested.

I'm a fairly new player (16 months), and looking for my first amp other than my little Roland Micro Cube. I'm also a big fan of Amplitube (AT3), and currently use my PC speakers for monitoring and the Scarlett 2i2 as my audio interface.

So I came to know of the Mustang kind of in reverse. I was thinking I wanted to focus on AT3 as my main effects processor, but I wanted something else for monitoring besides my PC speakers. I wanted portability (room to room at least), so I liked the idea of the traditional combo amp form factor more than studio monitors like the KRK Rokits. I was about to pull the trigger on a Tech 21 Power Engine when I read about how some traditional combo amps offer an Effects Loop Return which bypasses the pre-amp and basically turns your combo amp into a power amp for your modeling software output. I love the idea of having a modeling combo amp that I can use without AT3 and also have the option of connecting AT3 to the effects loop for a completely different set of models.

So my combo amp search brought me to the Mustang III and Mustang IV. I'm just about sold on this, based on the reviews and demos. But here are my questions:

- Love the idea of 2x12 stereo effects, but worried about size of MIV vs smaller MIII. I'm just going to be playing at home or jamming with friends. Is the 2x12 MIV overkill? Do the stereo effects make a noticeable quality difference?
- Is anyone successfully inputting other modeling software (AT3, HD500x, etc.) into the Mustang's effects loop and outputting through the amp's speakers? I know it's not going to be the same as FRFR studio monitors, but is it good enough? Note: I'm talking about NO input going straight into the front of the Mustang...all Mustang pre-amp and models would be bypassed.

BONUS QUESTION!- Does the MIII and MIV really come with the full AT Fender collection? If so, I don't see why they aren't screaming that all over the product details page. That's crazy. AT Fender normally costs $149 by itself. And given the Amplitube "Group Buy" promotion going on right now, you could essentially get ALL the Amplitube collections for free with a Mustang purchase? That can't be right, can it? If so, then I really regret not buying the Mustang first instead of buying the AT3 software and collections first.

TL/DR: Is Mustang IV worth the size/weight increase over Mustang III? Anyone using Amplitube or HD500 straight into effects loop with no Mustang pre-amp or models?


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:19 pm
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If you go to YouTube and search Mustang III vs Mustang IV you will see some good comparisons.

The Mustang IV is the kind of amp that could literally cover anything you wanted to do... be it playing in your bedroom with earphones or playing a large concert hall. Its main draw is the killer stereo twins and this amp will clone Fender Twins like no other! If you are in to twin amps and stereo effects... it is the clear choice. Its heavier... but not near as heavy as a tube twin and lighter than many tube 112s.

The Mustang III is also a fantastic amp. It is a bit lighter and smaller but at 100 watts can still take you a lot of places. Still sounds amazing but doesn't do the twins as well as the MIV obviously. This amp fooled the majority of listeners against a $1200 Eric Clapton Tremolux on YouTube... check it out!

Of course, then there's the Mustang V and 4x12 cab. Because some of us just like total overkill! :twisted:

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:01 am
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When I decided to go with the Mustang I went back and forth over whether the III or the IV would be the best choice. I chose the IV, but it had nothing to do with the stereo option. What I found was the IV seemed much more accurate on the twin reverb models as would be expected, but the two speakers and larger cabinet also gave it a much more "rounded" tone, or maybe a fuller tone. It's definitely more sensitive to the lows than is the III and I often tend to roll back the bass more than I would on the III. Where this really plays out is on the deluxe reverb models. To my ear the IV actually does a better job even though the real deluxe is a single speaker. That "full" sound is what my ear is listening for on a deluxe reverb and I got plenty of that feel on the IV. The III was good, but it was just fuller on the IV.

However, my amp is a working/gigging amp, so it may not be something you want to lug around for just playing at home of jamming with friends. It's a handful to move.

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:55 am
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Never looked at Amplitube products before - impressive stuff and now it all makes sense - clearly they are the developer for the Mustang/Fuse DSP and interface.
The amp model line up is slightly different in Mustang range, but covers same bases.

I don't know what you get with the Amplitube download that comes with the Mustangs though. I use Reaper and once I'm in there I don't do have the urge to do any guitar modelling - eq or reverb at most.

I find the III fairly heavy - it's not small and compact. Can't you get to a guitar shop to see them side by side?


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:47 am
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I think you're missing the point of the Mustang as a guitar amplifier re the stereo aspect - they're not hifi. The recording SQ aspect is taken care of when recording from it into your software, not playing through it.

I think the III is probably overkill watts if you're only using at home.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:04 am
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Luckily there is a Guitar Center about 30 minutes away that carries both the III and IV (as well as a few others I want to try), but I won't be able to get there for another couple of weeks.

At this point I'm leaning towards the IV as I'm only going to be able to buy one and only one amp (wife factor), and the IV seems like it could handle every scenario. I just have to see how those 47lbs feel in person when it comes to lugging it around. If it sounds even half as good as everybody says, it seems like a crazy deal. I can get it for $400 as an open box.

And the final test will be if these amps also sound going using only the Effects Return with Amplitube as the input, because then the options are really unlimited.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:10 am
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Drubbing wrote:
I think you're missing the point of the Mustang as a guitar amplifier re the stereo aspect - they're not hifi. The recording SQ aspect is taken care of when recording from it into your software, not playing through it.

I think the III is probably overkill watts if you're only using at home.


I don't really follow you. If I were to hook up Amplitube outputs into both the left and right Effect Loop Return inputs, isn't that going to give a true stereo sound output for things like delay effects? Whereas if I used just the left mono Effects Loop Return, then it would send a mono signal to both speakers? I would assume the same goes for the effects coming from the Mustang pre-amp itself. Isn't the delay effect going to make use of the two speakers in stereo, and not just send the same mono signal to both speakers?


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:24 am
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I think Drubbing means it's a guitar amp. It has a guitar speaker - it will add coloration.
But you don't want to play guitar into hifi as the speakers will be put under pressures they weren't built for.
Also stereo is kind of a bolt on - fun to have, sure, but most of the time not essential for most styles.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm
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thoman23 wrote:
Hey everybody,
- Is anyone successfully inputting other modeling software (AT3, HD500x, etc.) into the Mustang's effects loop and outputting through the amp's speakers? I know it's not going to be the same as FRFR studio monitors, but is it good enough? Note: I'm talking about NO input going straight into the front of the Mustang...all Mustang pre-amp and models would be bypassed.
TL/DR: Is Mustang IV worth the size/weight increase over Mustang III? Anyone using Amplitube or HD500 straight into effects loop with no Mustang pre-amp or models?


I've been using the 4CableMethod with my MustangIIIv2 for the past 10 months. On a gig, 99.99% of the time my floor modeler is running the show into the efx return (I gig 1-3 times/week). The MIIIv2 rocks via the efx return---every bit as powerful and loud as a Tech21 PE60 power cabinet but much smoother, with better projection, no hum/noise issues, and the convenience of an easily accessible master volume control. IMHO, I think Fender got the PoweAmp-Speaker-Cabinet combination very right. Very nice indoors or out.

Paj
8^)


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:45 pm
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PajFender wrote:
thoman23 wrote:
Hey everybody,
- Is anyone successfully inputting other modeling software (AT3, HD500x, etc.) into the Mustang's effects loop and outputting through the amp's speakers? I know it's not going to be the same as FRFR studio monitors, but is it good enough? Note: I'm talking about NO input going straight into the front of the Mustang...all Mustang pre-amp and models would be bypassed.
TL/DR: Is Mustang IV worth the size/weight increase over Mustang III? Anyone using Amplitube or HD500 straight into effects loop with no Mustang pre-amp or models?


I've been using the 4CableMethod with my MustangIIIv2 for the past 10 months. On a gig, 99.99% of the time my floor modeler is running the show into the efx return (I gig 1-3 times/week). The MIIIv2 rocks via the efx return---every bit as powerful and loud as a Tech21 PE60 power cabinet but much smoother, with better projection, no hum/noise issues, and the convenience of an easily accessible master volume control. IMHO, I think Fender got the PoweAmp-Speaker-Cabinet combination very right. Very nice indoors or out.

Paj
8^)


Oh man, you're killing me. I can't wait to get my hands on these amps and try them. The III and IV really sound like near-perfect amps for players (like me) who want an all-in-one solution for all different types of tones and scenarios, without spending a fortune. Even though it's not a true FRFR solution, it sounds like it's clean enough to power external modelers, but also gives you a customizable on-board modeling solution to use if you want.

What I don't understand is why the king of the entry-level modelers, Line 6, didn't make their new Amplifi product an FRFR cabinet, with a stereo FX loop, and all of the on-board Line 6 models available as well. Wouldn't that sell?

Anyway, I'm tempted to just order a MIV right now, but I know I need to hold off until I can get to a Guitar Center and try one in person.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:07 pm
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Get a version 2.0!

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my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
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Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:46 pm
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Hey thoman23,

Besides all the other responses, here's my take:

thoman23 wrote:
- Love the idea of 2x12 stereo effects, but worried about size of MIV vs smaller MIII. I'm just going to be playing at home or jamming with friends. Is the 2x12 MIV overkill? Do the stereo effects make a noticeable quality difference?


Depends on what you mean by "overkill". If you're referring to sheer volume, I have an MIII and it pretty much is never fully cranked. Unless you live alone and have really distant neighbors, (and you don't care about your hearing), I suspect you'll find the same. But, it can be turned down to pretty low levels too, and still sound good.

I don't have experience with the MIV, but I've heard (on the Internet, where else) some say that the speakers are too close for "good" stereo separation. I'm guessing that means that at low volumes, with your head pretty much between them, it will sound great, but as the volume goes up and you move farther away, the stereo effect may not be as obvious or sound as good. Again, just speculating based on a few comments here and there, your best bet is to try it out if you can and see for yourself.

Quote:
- Is anyone successfully inputting other modeling software (AT3, HD500x, etc.) into the Mustang's effects loop and outputting through the amp's speakers? I know it's not going to be the same as FRFR studio monitors, but is it good enough? Note: I'm talking about NO input going straight into the front of the Mustang...all Mustang pre-amp and models would be bypassed.


Yup, I do this all the time. I actually run my computer into the aux in, so the Mustang is a glorified computer speaker, and things like AmpliTube can play out the headphones through the Mustang. I also have an ME-25 and RP250 which work fine directly into the effects return of the Mustang. AmpliTube allows you to turn off the cabinet/speaker emulation, if you find that sounds better (if you think the Mustang will be closer to a guitar cabinet than a full-range speaker).

Quote:
BONUS QUESTION!- Does the MIII and MIV really come with the full AT Fender collection?


No. What you get with the Mustang is AmpliTube Fender LE, which is a stripped down version with only a few amp models and a few (I think like one each) stomp/rack effects. I can check which ones if you're really curious (have to drop offline right now).

However, I did get 20 Jampoints long ago when I registered my copy of AmpliTube Fender LE, and used it recently here:
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/atgb/

So for ~$80, I was able to choose 4 of the bundles (buy 1, get 3 free now, possibility of 4 free if enough additional sales before March 9). Not bad if you can find some spare change between your couch cushions.

HTH,

PITA


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:53 pm
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PITA wrote:
Hey thoman23,

Besides all the other responses, here's my take:

thoman23 wrote:
- Love the idea of 2x12 stereo effects, but worried about size of MIV vs smaller MIII. I'm just going to be playing at home or jamming with friends. Is the 2x12 MIV overkill? Do the stereo effects make a noticeable quality difference?


Depends on what you mean by "overkill". If you're referring to sheer volume, I have an MIII and it pretty much is never fully cranked. Unless you live alone and have really distant neighbors, (and you don't care about your hearing), I suspect you'll find the same. But, it can be turned down to pretty low levels too, and still sound good.

I don't have experience with the MIV, but I've heard (on the Internet, where else) some say that the speakers are too close for "good" stereo separation. I'm guessing that means that at low volumes, with your head pretty much between them, it will sound great, but as the volume goes up and you move farther away, the stereo effect may not be as obvious or sound as good. Again, just speculating based on a few comments here and there, your best bet is to try it out if you can and see for yourself.

Quote:
- Is anyone successfully inputting other modeling software (AT3, HD500x, etc.) into the Mustang's effects loop and outputting through the amp's speakers? I know it's not going to be the same as FRFR studio monitors, but is it good enough? Note: I'm talking about NO input going straight into the front of the Mustang...all Mustang pre-amp and models would be bypassed.


Yup, I do this all the time. I actually run my computer into the aux in, so the Mustang is a glorified computer speaker, and things like AmpliTube can play out the headphones through the Mustang. I also have an ME-25 and RP250 which work fine directly into the effects return of the Mustang. AmpliTube allows you to turn off the cabinet/speaker emulation, if you find that sounds better (if you think the Mustang will be closer to a guitar cabinet than a full-range speaker).

Quote:
BONUS QUESTION!- Does the MIII and MIV really come with the full AT Fender collection?


No. What you get with the Mustang is AmpliTube Fender LE, which is a stripped down version with only a few amp models and a few (I think like one each) stomp/rack effects. I can check which ones if you're really curious (have to drop offline right now).

However, I did get 20 Jampoints long ago when I registered my copy of AmpliTube Fender LE, and used it recently here:
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/atgb/

So for ~$80, I was able to choose 4 of the bundles (buy 1, get 3 free now, possibility of 4 free if enough additional sales before March 9). Not bad if you can find some spare change between your couch cushions.

HTH,

PITA


Wow, thank you for the great reply. I also joined in on the AT Group Buy...incredible deal. Glad to hear I'll get some Jam Points out of Fender LE as well.

So I actually left work early and made it to a Guitar Center today...and here are my impressions:
- I liked the Mustang models, but they didn't blow me away. Some of the Amplitube models blow me away...the Mustang ones were just alright. But I also may just need to experiment with it more, especially using the Fuse software. Also, it was the first time I've played out loud in a store, and the whole experience was nerve-wracking for a relative beginner like me (16 months), so it was hard to really focus.
- The MIV was just on the verge of being truly "portable". The size and weight were not as bad as I had feared, but it's still a close call. I live in a 3-level townhome, so my definition of portable is carrying it up and down the stairs at will. The MIII was PERFECT in terms of size and weight.
- Discovered that the vast majority of the Mustang presets are high-gain distortion fests, or at least seemed to be. The tone in my head is usually something along the lines of that sick, fat little riff in Happiness Is A Warm Gun...or Revolution...or Helter Skelter (sensing a trend?). I wasn't hearing anything close to those tones in the presets...but maybe some time spent in Fuse could get me close.
- Never put the volume above 2 to 3 on either the III or the IV. They are loud.
- I discovered that 40-watt and higher tube amps are right out. Those are even louder and I don't see how anyone could ever play them at home.
- I really liked what I heard in the Blackstar HT-5R.

Anyway...my mind is not made up yet. I am going to make another trip, this time with my own guitar, my laptop with Amplitube, and my audio interface, and see how the contenders sound with external models. I guess I'm leaning toward the Mustang III right now, but want to check out the Blackstar some more.


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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:10 am
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markcc wrote:
I think Drubbing means it's a guitar amp. It has a guitar speaker - it will add coloration.
But you don't want to play guitar into hifi as the speakers will be put under pressures they weren't built for.
Also stereo is kind of a bolt on - fun to have, sure, but most of the time not essential for most styles.


I, personally, disagree regarding the "stereo" aspect of your post.

Using my Mustang Floor (MF) I was debating, as I had beat to death in other threads :D, of which sound amplification method I wanted to use.

One of my major concerns was? Stereo.
I wanted TRUE stereo. I just like it I guess :)

And if the OP is like me he wants to hear what is in his head or, what he thinks it should sound like.

I'd guess for a straight, simple, sound/style, you are correct.
But I listen to a few bands like "The Verve", "The Helio Sequence" and I hear the stereo and I like it.

So, that's why I ran my MF into a pair of Powered 12's.

I was concerned with how "stereo" a 2x12 stereo amp would sound and PITA confirms my suspicions. Glad I didn't go that route.

@ The Original Poster (OP)
If you already have/use modeling software why not just go active/powered speakers (like I did) or the Tech21 like you mentioned, or, a 12" combo amp (x2) for true nice stereo sound (if it's something YOU want).

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Post subject: Re: New to Mustang...have some questions
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:38 am
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Yes Wulf Gangii - that was kinda what I was getting at - you need proper stereo separation, so a one box solution is only going to fatten it up a bit, rather than give sound all round..
But to spend time adjusting stereo spreads and widths is something I'd rather only do in the DAW when I really want it. Musty has stereo out for recording and that's enough for me

I think your solution is better for stereo.
That first Verve album has great spacey sounds on it - I really like his guitar style (I don't know their other albums well).

Mustang IV and some chainsaw skills to make a second cab?!


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