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Post subject: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I consider myself an idiot when it comes to electrical loads...

The Mustang V has two separate 8 Ohm connections for the stereo Mustang V head and Fender states that "while it may be possible to run a Mustang V head thru other cabinets they do not guarantee it will work."

My question is just the opposite: If at some point I were to get another head such as a nice little VOX Night Train or a Orange Tiny Terror... would I be able to run something like that thru the Mustang cab or is the Mustang cab completely proprietary?

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Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:36 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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follow these guidelines and you should be fine:
-do not connect your speakers to an amp that is rated with a higher wattage than what your speakers can support (particularly if you want to play at high volume)
-if your amp output is rated to let's say 8 ohms:
-connecting an 8 ohms speaker will provide you the best scenario
-connecting anything higher than 8 ohms will work safely but you will lose a lot of volume
-connecting anything lower than 8 ohms will damage your amp, particularly at high volumes
-combine the speakers in series or parallel to get the best impedance match with your amp

so in other words with a couple of 8 ohms speakers rated at 100 watts (your case I think) you can:
-connect each speaker (stereo config) to a different amp output rated 8 ohms or lower, with a maximum power of 100 watts
-connect both speakers in parallel (some external cabling required, this will provide an impedance of 4 ohms) for a mono config suitable for an amp output rated ideally at 4 ohms
-connect both speakers in series (some external cabling required, this will provide an impedance of 16 ohms) for a mono config suitable for an amp output rated ideally at 16 ohms

if you want to know more take a look at
http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm


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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:39 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Thanks Jedi

OK: so Mustang V cab is 100 watts per side, 8 Ohms per side

Say, a VOX Night Train is 15 watts RMS 8 Ohms or 16 Ohms

So I could hook a Night Train up to the Mustang cab?

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Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:06 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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according to this site, the amp is 50 watts and has a dual, 8ohm output, so you can plus both speakers from your mustang cab independently to it without any risk. In fact the speakers used in the vox cabinet look similar to the celestions on the mustang cab :)


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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:19 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Lake Charles, LA
Dude, what the hell were you looking at? The back of that VOX Nighttrain has ports for you to plug either a 1x8Ω load or 2x16Ω loads. And the other jack is for 1x16Ω. The amp is not set up for 2x8Ω for the Mustang V cabinet.

But you CAN just run one side of the Mustang V cabinet as a single 8Ω load. It would just use either one side or the other of the cabinet.

Now, I don't know about the v.2 cabinet, but my v.1 cabinet has two 8Ω input jacks for stereo operation, or you can use either of the two inputs as a mono-input at 4Ω. The VOX Nighttrain DEFINITELY doesn't allow for 4Ω only loads, so that's a problem.

Ohm's Law gives:
Voltage = Current x Resistance
And we also know that from Coulomb's Law, we get Power (in watts) as:
Power = Voltage x Current

Since R (the speakers) gives 8Ω, then V = (8Ω) x i = 8i
Plug into Power equation to get 50W = 8i x i. So i = 2.5 amperes.
Then the voltage must be 20 volts.

If you were to plug a 16Ω speaker into that system with the same transformer, you would alter the current draw to 1.25 Amperes. That's less current through your voltage transformer, so you get less sound, but otherwise wouldn't really damage anything.

HOWEVER.... if you were to plug a 4Ω load into that output, you would double the amp draw up to 5 amps, which would most likely fry your output transformer, as it wasn't set up to handle that kind of current draw through that output jack. That's why EVERYONE will tell you that you can go UP in load (16Ω speaker into an 8Ω amp) but you can NEVER GO DOWN (4Ω into anything other than a 4Ω amp). You'd instantly void your warranty for "misuse of product as intended."

Wow, who knew what 3 weeks of Electrical Engineering courses in college would teach ya...

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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:50 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Fellow "dude",

from the manufacturers specs of the amp on the link I shared before:

Inputs/Outputs:

Guitar input
FX Loop (Send/Return, Bypass switch)
Foot switch,
1 x Speaker output (16 Ω)
2 x Speaker output (8 Ω)


I may be wrong, and/or the site may be wrong, but that is the best info I was able to get.


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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:01 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:26 am
Posts: 500
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Image

Given the image of the back of a VOX Night Train 15M amp head, I can see two voltage-line outputs on the back: an 8Ω output that has two output jacks (white) wired in parallel, and a single 16Ω output (black) jack by itself. So he can plug in a SINGLE 8Ω speaker cabinet, or TWO 16Ω cabinets. Not two 8Ω cabinets. So he can't run the Mustang V cabinet from that one amp with two cables.

And I also have to correct myself. I inspected the back of my Mustang cabinet. Apparently, you CAN'T use it as two 8Ω cabinets independently unless you actually use both simultaneously. If you only plug one cable in, the cab will use all 4 speakers in parallel at 4Ω. This is quite dangerous with smaller, low-wattage amps as they usually aren't wired up for 4Ω operation. My big 100-watt Marshall can do it, but I'd still rather hook it up to my 1960A cab at 16Ω.

Hmmm. I wonder if you could replace the back jack plate of the Mustang V cabinet with one from the Marshall 1960 so you could have either 16Ω OR 4Ω mono operation, then the dual-8Ω stereo operation (for regular Mustang V stereo operation). It would void your warranty, but might make the cabinet itself more versatile. Hmmm...

_________________
Marshall JVM410H + 1960A Lead
Fender Mustang V + V412
Fender Mustang II
Marshall Lead 12 3005 MS
Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst
Gibson SG Faded Special
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Hagstrom Ultra-Swede
Custom Warmoth Strat


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Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:37 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm
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This is my fear... that the Mustang 4x12 cab has been "intentionally designed" to not be compatible with most other amp heads. I had read in a forum in the past that the Frontman FM100 speaker cab was similarly designed to not be compatible with most other heads beside the FM100. It was my hope that, in the future, I might be able to get a tube amp head and switch between it and my MV but using the same cab and not having to invest in another one.

Alas, I will probably just end up getting a small combo instead of a head.

_________________
Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Profile
Post subject: Re: Running a non-Mustang head thru Mustang V cab?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:42 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
you are correct, the amp manual states:

8 Ohm Speaker Jacks –
This is used to connect the Night Train to any 8 ohm cabinet or 2 x 16ohm cabinets.

16 Ohm Speaker Jack –
This is used to connect the Night Train to any 16 ohm cabinet.


The info on their site is incorrect.


What I would do not to invalidate the fender warranty would be to externally wire the two 8 ohms cab sides in series to get 16 ohms total impedance, and then connect the whole thing to the single 16 ohms output of the little amp.


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