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Post subject: Big Sparky
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:47 pm
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Hello, I have (had) a Mustang I, that just last Friday sparked out at the USB. And I mean SPARKS! Looked like a 12 Volt battery. Anyhoo, I was wondering if any of you had or heard of this problem, and what it could be? Lickily it just fried my amp and not my computer. Plus, is it true??? The Frontmans are discontinued? I want a cheap Solid State amp, but not one with modeling and effects, I WANT TRUE TONE!!


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:24 pm
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decemberdad wrote:
I have (had) a Mustang I, that just last Friday sparked out at the USB. And I mean SPARKS! Looked like a 12 Volt battery.

If there was a problem with too much power on the USB cable, that would indicate a problem with the computer, not the amp. Might want to look into that. :idea:

Edit: P.S. look here :arrow: http://www.fender.com/series/frontman/

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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:38 am
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Sounds like a ground/earth issue. If either the amp or the PC isn't earthed, then the whole unit could 'float' at a non-zero voltage. As soon as you earth it (via the USB cable) it discharges.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:01 am
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if you got sparks, please stay away from that computer. there are good chances that the ground connection on your outlet is defective or unconnected AND the PC is putting live AC on the PC chassis. Perfect deathtrap.

frontmans and any other old school solid state amps will provide you two kinds of "tone"
-either totally clean, in which case you only hear what your pickup provides (plus the speaker specific voicing). You don't need a frontman for that. Any cheap power amp plus a guitar cabinet will do the same job. or you can use the basic twin or studio preset on the mustang.
-...or using the distortion included with the frontman. This is just old school solid state drive/distortion similar to using a distortion pedal of your choice, probably something similar to a tubescreamer or the greenbox included with the mustang . so no need for frontman either.

either way, I think frontmans and the like are totally outdated, specially when you can get the same and more with a mustang, for a similar price.

Some people claim that mustangs are difficult to use. it is tru that there's a learning curve to it, but the thing is that you do not need to learn anything if you don't want to, simply dial any of the "basic" presets (basic, twin, basic deluxe, etc) and forget about the modelling part, just use the gain and tone controls on the amp itself, and there you have your "frontman experience" back again :)


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:08 am
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Just to be very clear, the outlet that I was using was "clean" properly grounded, and that no other USB peripheral has before or since, acted in this way. Just the amp on last Friday. It was a on shot deal that killed my amp. I enjoyed the 11 months that I had it, but I no longer want an amp that has identity issues. None of the music stores in Toronto Ontario have the Front man series in stock or on their sites, and when I inquired with one that told me Fender discontinued them.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:50 pm
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decemberdad wrote:
Just to be very clear, the outlet that I was using was "clean"

If the outlet the computer was plugged into and the outlet the amp was plugged into were both in good working order, and you believe your USB Bus is 100% normal and functional ... how do you explain the 'big spark'? And how does something send a huge electrical jolt that is enough to fry a device one day, and then it's 100% ok and functional the next day? Sorry but something doesn't add up there...

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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:31 pm
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If both the power outlet and the PC are working just fine as you insist, the only other explanation I can think of is that your computer has a USB port with Battery Charging Specification. If so, it should be clearly marked or in the documentation for the computer.

Since these "charging" ports push much higher current (900mA - 2100mA) than normal USB ports (around 500mA), it's conceivable that it could fry the amp.

Just a guess...

As far as getting a small non-modeling SS amp to replace the MI, I agree with everyone else's opinions... it will be a mistake - but it is yours to make as you please.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:09 pm
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Strings10927, I agree 100% with your question. However, I am not making this s**t up. LOL, It scared the bejezus out of my buddy and I. It was in his studio that this happened.

p90sdude, that makes the most sense. I did not know I had a charging port, until I just tried it. Thank you.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:51 pm
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p90sdude wrote:
Since these "charging" ports push much higher current (900mA - 2100mA) than normal USB ports (around 500mA), it's conceivable that it could fry the amp.

Just a guess...

Can I blow up my USB device?

There is a huge variance, then, between normal USB 2.0 ports rated at 500mA and dedicated charging ports which range all the way up to 2100mA. This leads to a rather important question: If you take a smartphone which came with a 900mA wall charger, and plug it into a 2100mA iPad charger, will it blow up?

In short, no: You can plug any USB device into any USB cable and into any USB port, and nothing will blow up — and in fact, using a more powerful charger should speed up battery charging.

The longer answer is that the age of your device plays an important role, dictating both how fast it can be charged, and whether it can be charged using a wall charger at all. In 2007, the USB Implementers Forum released the Battery Charging Specification, which standardized faster ways of charging USB devices, either by pumping more amps through your PC’s USB ports, or by using a wall charger. Shortly thereafter, USB devices that implemented this spec started to arrive.

If you have a modern USB device — really, almost any smartphone, tablet, e-book reader, or camera — you should be able to plug into a high-amperage USB port and enjoy faster charging. If you have an older device, however, it probably won’t work with USB ports that employ the Battery Charging Specification; it might only work with old school, original (500mA) USB 1.0 and 2.0 PC ports. In some (older) cases, USB devices can only be charged by computers with specific drivers installed.


From: Link

I'm leaning toward the ground/earth issue.

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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:09 pm
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Quote:
Since these "charging" ports push much higher current (900mA - 2100mA) than normal USB ports (around 500mA), it's conceivable that it could fry the amp.

No, that isn't how electricity works. As an analogy: the water company have a big reservoir that could deliver millions of gallons instantly to your bathtub every time you turn on the tap. It's pretty obvious that simply couldn't happen. For the same reasons, just because a PC can support sending a higher current to a device, doesn't mean it will.

The only way you'd get a current overload like this is if the USB port on the amp is already faulty and the power line is 'shorted' to ground. Even that wouldn't give a big or noticeable spark, at these voltage and current levels.

It's almost certainly either a ground/earth issue, or a static charge/discharge. The voltages that can easily build-up with a static charge in a home can easily cause big sparks. And it wouldn't have to be the power supply / socket with a faulty earth, it could have been inside the amp, and the spark/frying destroyed the faulty link, which is why it's no longer reproducible.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:58 pm
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Static discharge was my first guess.

I'm constantly worried about it due to my office area being carpeted.

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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:24 pm
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As long as the amp and the PC are both properly grounded I would not worry too much about static discharges.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:49 pm
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I live in an OLD OLD house and I'm almost positive that I am not...

"properly grounded"

I just try not to drag my feet :D

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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:15 pm
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WulfGangii wrote:
Static discharge was my first guess.

I'm constantly worried about it due to my office area being carpeted.


Yeah, I've put some really big shocks through my iPhone. Big enough that they hurt my finger. Whatever carpet material we have is bad for static... much worse than household carpet.

Luckily the phone is fine (though I think I did fry my webcam) so now I have a routine of touching my metal keyboard tray when I come into the office and sit down.


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Post subject: Re: Big Sparky
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:36 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
Since these "charging" ports push much higher current (900mA - 2100mA) than normal USB ports (around 500mA), it's conceivable that it could fry the amp.

No, that isn't how electricity works...


Doah! I knew that from the basic electronics I learened building my own pedals (not extensively). To put it even more simply, the device isn't going to pull any more power than it needs. So, unless you have a short to earth somewhere, you can safely give it a power supply that's rated much higher (in ameperage) if you want - it'll just pull what it needs and nothing more.

Don't know what I was thinking that day... :roll:


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