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Post subject: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:59 pm
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Yeah, when I am working all week, and not playing the guitar, I look at the internet at amps, and through my catalogs, They are nice! I like the Fenders the most. I play a Setzer signature Gretsch, and when I plug into the M3 V2, The sound is just so right. All the GAS for another amp goes away! I like the effects options, and you just don't get there with any other amp. I love the M3 and I just wanted to let the world know!

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:30 pm
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Played tube amps since forever ago... never thought would be blown away by ANY ss amp.
These amplifiers are something special. Love mine too!

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:22 pm
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+1 & +2 guys.

I have got a bunch of tube amps here and my Mustangs are forcing me to now play a lot of the time. In fact I am due for some playing before the Superbowl.

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:14 am
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There will always be "tube snobs" but I think that SS technology is really stepping up. I am finding it very hard to justify ever buying another tube amp now that I have my Mustang V V.2! Even my G-DEC 3 Thirty and Passport Mini are damned impressive!

Having said that, if a nice tube head that is compatible with my Mustang cab fell in my lap it would be fun to have to switch out now and again!

What I am finding to be really obsolete these days are stompboxes and pedals!

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:59 am
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I think this is the main reason I keep balking at actually buying that tube amp I want (Classic 30 or Delta Blues). The fact that they're kind of a one or two trick pony compared to the MIII. ( however, they're REALLY good tricks!)

I WILL eventually break down and buy one. They just sound so freaking good! And if not one of those two, I'll buy a Blues Deluxe, Super Sonic 60, or an Excelsior. Problem is, all but the Excelsior are also monstrously loud, if you want the kind of tone they do best. The Mustang doesn't have that problem. ( I'm a home player)

I'll still keep my stompers, for reasons I've elaborated on at length elsewhere. Not to mention having access to combos the MIII doesn't have.


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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:56 am
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Funny... I traded my Delta Blues 210 for my Mustang V half-stack. The Delta Blues was nice but it was indeed a one-trick pony. Most of the time I just ran a Mustang Floor through its effects loop bypassing the Delta Blues pre-amp... hence the trade!

I "interviewed" an Excelsior for a weekend but decided against it for the same reason... its a one trick pony and not even pedal-friendly. If I ever get a tube amp for home use it will probably be the Blues Jr. or a VOX Night Train head to use through my Mustang cab. But neither are really "necessary" as I can get those tones from my Mustang V (and even my G-DEC) already!

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:42 pm
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There are good and bad sounding tube amps, even with same names and models. When you play a good one, you'll realize how these digital modelers do not come even close to what they try to imitate - the touch sensitivity, elasticity and fullness of tube amps. Also, they react differently when played loud with a band.
That's why modelers cost hundreds and tube amps thousands. And that's why IMHO the majority of current top guitar players use tube amps.


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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:41 pm
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muzak wrote:
There are good and bad sounding tube amps, even with same names and models.

True, and I have many now and have used many many more over the decades.

muzak wrote:
When you play a good one, you'll realize how these digital modelers do not come even close to what they try to imitate - the touch sensitivity, elasticity and fullness of tube amps.

I cannot disagree more. Are you listening to muzak like in elevator music? :)
In comparison tests modelers are getting very close in sound and I have been very surprised.

muzak wrote:
Also, they react differently when played loud with a band. That's why modelers cost hundreds and tube amps thousands. And that's why IMHO the majority of current top guitar players use tube amps.

Times are changing my friend and you just happened to leave out all of the pluses a player gets with a current modeler and I am only talking about the last couple of years. It is all subjective and opinions are like ears and every one has two of them but your blanket statements reek of something. :mrgreen:

I will say I agree though if I had infinite amounts of dollars and a current road crew I would be using only tube amps as well but that is not the case for me and many other professional musicians.

Many of the current top guitar players cannot even hear anymore because of those very loud tube amps that you speak about and that has always been one of my primary concerns and I still have got ears.

Just my two cents and I have been in the biz for many years and own a professional recording studio and am also a producer and decent sound engineer.

Love, HIO (Here In Oregon)

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:50 pm
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The majority of current top players are playing direct to PA through a pro modeling rig such as an Axe FX II.

The row of Marshall stacks you see on stage are for decoration and often are speakerless shells! World touring bands aren't going to lug real tube amps across the globe and deal with re-biasing and replacing tubes after every bumpy long-haul in the 16-wheeler. Even most "grand pianos" you see on a concert stage are keyboards going to PA through a modeler set in a grand piano shell purely for show... who is going to re-tune a real piano after every bumpy long haul?

I agree that, with an infinite amount of money, I could spend bazillions on overpriced 60s technology tube amps and analog effects boxes to achieve what a $300 modeling amp can do by itself. But I am a amateur hobbyist player and don't make that kind of dough! The modern modeling amps are leaps and bounds better than the circa 90s and even 2000s modeling amps and they are getting imperceptibly close to the amps they are cloning. The Mustang III, IV and V blow away the old Fender Cyber-Deluxe and Cyber-Twins and the venerable Johnson Millennium line which back in the 90s were the "pioneer" top-sounding modeling amps and cost in the $1000s back in the day!

Hallelujah that the modern-technology amps are getting cheaper while the technology improves. I think one-reason, besides low demand due to the cost and the dearth of people nowadays that learn to play a musical instrument, that 60s technology tube amps are so pricey is that the archaic vacuum tubes and circuitry are completely obsolete in all other electronics and thus have to be boutique manufactured just for the tube amps!

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my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:30 pm
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Tiger J wrote:
The majority of current top players are playing direct to PA through a pro modeling rig such as an Axe FX II.

The row of Marshall stacks you see on stage are for decoration and often are speakerless shells! World touring bands aren't going to lug real tube amps across the globe and deal with re-biasing and replacing tubes after every bumpy long-haul in the 16-wheeler.

Good thing you know this so well. The bands I have seen have generally used smaller tube amps fed into the PA system. Yeah, the wall of amps is often for show, but using a tube amp first sure is popular, even in 2014.
And a lot of gigging amps are self-biasing anyhow.


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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:05 am
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OK, I should have mentioned that I base my opinion only on cheaper modelers like Fender Mustangs and Line6 stuff. Kemper for example, could be much better, and costs over €1000.

But whatever works for you. If it's a digital computer amp and makes you play more, I'm happy for you!


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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:34 pm
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muzak wrote:
There are good and bad sounding tube amps, even with same names and models. When you play a good one, you'll realize how these digital modelers do not come even close to what they try to imitate

...aaaaand there it is again. The arrogant presumption that since some of us choose to use a modeling amp, we must be a bunch of know-nothing kids who never saw a tube amp before. The truth is lots of us have owned and played tube amps. I have a 69 Super Reverb Amp sitting behind me right now. We are smart and open-minded enough to know there are up sides and down sides to both. Some of us choose to own both for that reason. Why don't you save the history lesson and go out and educate yourself about what's available now, not the amp you tried (with a pouty "OK, I'll try it but I'm not gonna like it" face) 3 years ago.

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:29 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
muzak wrote:
There are good and bad sounding tube amps, even with same names and models. When you play a good one, you'll realize how these digital modelers do not come even close to what they try to imitate

...aaaaand there it is again. The arrogant presumption that since some of us choose to use a modeling amp, we must be a bunch of know-nothing kids who never saw a tube amp before. The truth is lots of us have owned and played tube amps. I have a 69 Super Reverb Amp sitting behind me right now. We are smart and open-minded enough to know there are up sides and down sides to both. Some of us choose to own both for that reason. Why don't you save the history lesson and go out and educate yourself about what's available now, not the amp you tried (with a pouty "OK, I'll try it but I'm not gonna like it" face) 3 years ago.


I have been through loud tube amps, attenuators and just amps that are not configurable. being a computer guy anyway, I find the Mustangs software a techno advancement to the guitar player! I had a Line 6 Flextone III XL and It was great, the Mustang is far superior! And I am the guy who is paying a $3000+ guitar through a $300 Amp!. It comes down to being able to understand the Mustangs, and enjoying what they have to offer! 8)

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:47 pm
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mak1965 wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
muzak wrote:
There are good and bad sounding tube amps, even with same names and models. When you play a good one, you'll realize how these digital modelers do not come even close to what they try to imitate

...aaaaand there it is again. The arrogant presumption that since some of us choose to use a modeling amp, we must be a bunch of know-nothing kids who never saw a tube amp before. The truth is lots of us have owned and played tube amps. I have a 69 Super Reverb Amp sitting behind me right now. We are smart and open-minded enough to know there are up sides and down sides to both. Some of us choose to own both for that reason. Why don't you save the history lesson and go out and educate yourself about what's available now, not the amp you tried (with a pouty "OK, I'll try it but I'm not gonna like it" face) 3 years ago.


I have been through loud tube amps, attenuators and just amps that are not configurable. being a computer guy anyway, I find the Mustangs software a techno advancement to the guitar player! I had a Line 6 Flextone III XL and It was great, the Mustang is far superior! And I am the guy who is paying a $3000+ guitar through a $300 Amp!. It comes down to being able to understand the Mustangs, and enjoying what they have to offer! 8)


+1

I was a tube snob on an SS budget. This led me to the Frontman 212R and then to the Champion 100. Fate provided me with my MIV V2 and I am not chasing the tube sound anymore.. I have it and MORE with the 'Stang.

The tube is better argument reminds me of the film is better argument that I used to make a decade ago.

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Post subject: Re: Tube amp needed? I don't think so!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am
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Well it looks like I am an arrogant tube amp snob :D
I have owned and still own several vintage tube amps. I'm also amp and guitar tech with knowledge how to service and tune up amps. I can tell why two same year same model tube amps sound different. I do this for living.

I had a fizzy Mustang V + different cabs, didn't like it, but now I am enjoying Mustang Floor with my killer SFPR as a preamp and fx box. They seems to work very well together and it's a joy to play these. It's not the same with my other tube amps because they have different tone stacks and speakers. I need to tweak the Floor more and still don't get a good sound.

The Mustang's Princeton Reverb modeling doesn't sound like a real Princeton Reverb. Neither the Marshall imitation will give you a real Marshall crunch like my JCM800. Period. In my opinion, if you don't hear and feel the difference between a Mustang modeling and its real life tube amp counter part you have something wrong with your ears! Or you don't know what to listen to.

And if you play electric guitar with modeling through PA and say it's like playing a tube amp.. :lol:

However, the Mustangs can sound good and do their job well. I'm not saying they are crap, they are just different kind of amps. Definitely NOT like tube amps.


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