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Post subject: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:54 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Hi guys,

this week for the first time I decided to pay some attention to the SS emulation on the Mustangs. Definitely not my style but it is in there, so why note explore it.

Big was my surprise when I discovered that you can get one of the best clean-ish and tubby tones out of it. Simply lower Gain1 and Gain2 below 2 and put Master volume setting to 10 (not the master volume knob! the setting on advanced amp settings)

With that in mind I tried to understand how to use the Gain1 and Gain2 controls, and there is when I discovered this is probably the most difficult amp model to setup for a nice tone.

This is my understanding so far but I would like anybody that knows better this model (or real amp) to jump in and add some tips:

-Gain1: alone (gain 2 to very low values), works like a regular overdrive control, adding gain mostly to the mids mainly
-Gain2: alone (gain 1 to very low values), sounds like a scooped booster, as if the lows and treble was boosted but not the mids

so looking at it this way it seemed as if both gains where kind of in parallel, one working on mids and the other on lows/highs. Well, it is not that way as I discovered. When you start to combine Gain1 and Gain2, it does not sound like the sum of both of them alone... any tips on how to use this two concurrently?

The other thing I discovered is that, as I increase Gain1, it is better to lower master volume, otherwise it gets noisy and muddy, but the same does not seem to apply to Gain2 and master volume...

Any guidance would be great here :)


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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:22 pm
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Thanks for posting your findings Jedi. I too have been curious about the differences in the effect Gain 1 and Gain 2 has on the tone from a design standpoint. I haven’t had any luck getting the cleans on this model to sound good to my ears compared to what I’ve gotten from the Deluxe and Princeton but the crunches on this model I’m indeed loving. Would be cool if they added a firmware patch that like the mid knob can be accessed by holding down the exit button, can activate Gain 2 so that you hold down the ‘Exit’ knob and turning the Gain knob on the amp is actually controlling Gain 2 on the model.

Just a thought.

Going to revisit the cleans of this amp based on your findings.

Thanks as always.

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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:15 pm
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Am on my mobile as i cant reach forums from home otherwise so i will be quick.
In a real SS, Gain 1 gives you kind of old school blues/rock OD,nothing too distorted, Gain 2 gives you a more modern,even metal-ish OD,can get very distorted in conjunction with G1. You cant have no Gain 1 and only G2, but you can have G1 and (almost) no G2 and still be on the same volume.
My settings on my SS60 are G1 @ 7, G2 @ 3. Love that creamy overdrive that I get from such settings.

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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:01 pm
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Great info, thanks.

For those who would like to discover the SuperSonic-Burn-Clean if that even makes sense, here it goes: A clean version of the SuperSonic, kind of an in between of Deluxe, Princeton and Twin, with guitar volume at max is on the edge of breakup with my SC pickups, with a pinch of tremolo and reverb to make it live.

https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... dic-sonic/


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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:28 pm
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I think I have found what could be the issue with the SS amp model. It is really easy, when using both gain controls combined, to saturate the model and make it clip in a non pleasant way and to completelly loose string dynamics.

I took as base the Gain settings shared on the previos post (G1 = 7 , G2 = 3 ) and tried to make it sound good building from there. This is what I got:

-I had to lower the Master volume a lot ( = 3)
-I changed the cabinet emulation for another slightly different (SS212)
-Crucially I put SAG to more and BIAS to -50
-The tone stack is configured to lower the mids around 2

With those settings, and a guitar volume of 7 on the neck (texas specials) I get a nice Alternative Rock tone, that retains string dynamics.


Thanks for the help! I'm starting to understand this beast at last. I think G1 and G2 are in series, so when increasing G1, G2 becomes very sensitive. Same thing with master volume, at high values of G1 and high values of master volume it gets muddy for this combination adds too much mids to the mix.

here's my "driven" preset
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... -altsonic/
Lower guitar volume until you get to the edge of saturation


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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:46 pm
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Interesting info. I'll be honest... the SS model on the Mustang's has become about my least favorite. If I want old school grit (electric blues, blues rock) the Bassman and Deluxe models deliver those in spades. Clean (surf, country) Twin's got it... Classic Rock,
southern Rock... Marshall 80's or 70's... or heavier Rock tones Metal 2000 or 90's got those... Super Sonic has been taking a back seat on this end... but will try these settings out.
Thanks for posting your findings Gentlemen.
Rock On

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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:30 pm
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No problem Jedi :)

As I've written in my thread, the emulation of real SuperSonic has a very narrow window where they sound alike - and the EQ on M will have to be set differently.
The real SuperSonic also has a very good clean so if you don't like the SS model on M, don't think the real SS sounds the same. Try it out if you are considering getting a real SS, don't base your decision purely on the M's emulation of SS (the decision obviously being whether you go and try out the SS, not just whether you go and buy the SS :P ).

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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:00 pm
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I have to agree the SS is the most challenging model to maniplulate...

For starters, let's remember we are modeling the BURN channel, not the vintage channels, so we're into some very high gain territory already. True cleans may not be realistic...perhaps reachable, but there are so many better clean models, why bother?

My best results have also been with G1 mid-ish and G3 low-ish. Tone manipulation is also key. Using the FUSE interface is necessary for me and my M2. I also have ditched the stock speaker setting and moved to my favorite, 2x12C. I can get some nice crunchy tones.

I have also spent time at my local GC for some real-world experience with the real amp...it has been valuable for me.

I have not gotten to twisting the sag and bias settings...so many amps...so little time.

Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:21 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
. I think G1 and G2 are in series, so when increasing G1, G2 becomes very sensitive. .


Hi ,
yes, i read some months ago that it is an amp with the double gain stage and they are in series in preamp section.
Here's something useful from a review:
[...] The second channel, Burn, is where the Super-Sonic moves forward apace.The dual-gain controls are the first clue: Fender bills gain one as adding edgy break-up and distortion, while gain two adds compression, thickness and sustain - pointedly, an area in which Mesa/Boogie for one has excelled.

The post-gain EQ enables you dial-in a wide range of sounds and textures [...]


here's the link with the complete review http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/fender-super-sonic-22-combo-280947/

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: help understanding SuperSonic emulation
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:37 am
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Interesting topic, thanks for sharing. I´ll try it. I like that amp.

Sabas.

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