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Post subject: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:36 am
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So, as promised, a review of how the Mustang fares against a real Supersonic 60.

I didn't have my Fender Strat at home while I was testing the amps, but I did compare the 2 with a Gibson LP, also a very good guitar so I did both amps justice as far as guitar goes.

The first thing - Mustang only has the burn channel, which is a shame as the normal channel is awesome. The SS60 has 2 clean channels - Bassman and Vibrolux, Vibrolux is great for funk, has a lot of trebble, while Bassman is more bassy, great for lead clean stuff and basically anything where you don't want too much high-end, but want some middle and bass as well. Both of these channels are great though. Mustang is missing on these.

The Burn channel will also be different depending on whether you've got Bassman mode or Vibrolux mode on - the difference is nowhere near as big as the one on clean channel, but it's still a subtle but noticeable difference. Mustang is missing on this as well.

There are a couple of other awesome features SS60 has, but that's beside the point right now.

Sound:
I tested the amps with the same guitar, in the same room, same EQ levels set on the amps. They didn't sound very much alike. SS60 was far superior in every regard (and, well, it's a 1500€ amp vs a 350€ amp so what did you expect?). The Mustang sounded way more muddier (and I don't mean that in a good way like good muddy distortion), especially when trying to play open chords with distortion or any minor chords going from CAGED system, only the ones from E were decent.

I tried different cabs (at first it was the Supersonic 1x12 cab emulation, tried every other as well) and it didn't get any better. The SS cab emulations were better to nailing the SS60 (also 1x12), but didn't nail it all things considered. The Mustang lacked middle and bass. The sound was also nowhere near as 'present' as the SS60's.

As far as Gain controls go, in Mustang both of the gains sound quite alike. It's very much different in the real SS60, the first gain gives you that bluesy/rock gain, whereas the second one can get you in metal hi-gain zone. The distinction in the Mustang is nowhere near as big.

The Reverb - as there is no clean channel on Mustang's version of SS, I can't say for certainty as it does hide a bit behind distortion. I can say there wasn't a huge difference as far as reverb goes though.

The response/pick-attack - well a tube amp vs a solid-state, one can't expect a solid-state to win. The SS60 beats M by far. The M's more constant output that doesn't depend as much on pick attack can be a benefit when recording as you don't have to be as careful with your picking hand as you have to be with a tube amp, to give constant output, but in a live situation.. Well, you need pick attack to be very recognizable.

All in all I'd say this - if you like the SS or any of the British models on the Ms and are considering buying the real SS - buy it, you'll like it even more than on the M. On the other hand if you intend on selling a SS to go for a M, I'd say don't go as you'll be disappointed.

Now I am not saying that the SS model on M is bad. No way. I liked the sound. But it isn't an exact replica of the sound you get from the real SS. Then again, I never used Mustang as a way to get exact same sound from the amp as the amp it was supposed to model, I wanted to get the sounds I like. I could get that, but I love the sounds I am getting from my SS60. The only "regret" I have is that I know I'll have to buy a couple more pedals (but still not as many as on most tube amps, due to SS60's awesome features) and that I have to buy expensive, quality, ones as I have to do the amp justice :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:49 pm
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Great review, Anyway, I was looking for new reviews of the M3 and found this? I was wrong also! Check out this blind taste test!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUxBL7mub0A

Glad you like the SS, Very nice amp!
MK

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:48 pm
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Nice blind test, at first I thought the EC was A, but was leaning towards B towards the end as some parts sounded clearer on B towards the end. Although if I had to choose one and if I couldn't listen to it again, I'd probably choose A on first take.
That being said, there weren't exactly a lot of open chords being played and most of the stuff was on low strings and these differences are much harder to detect on a recording. I also said in my previous post that Mustang's output will stay the same when recording which is a bonus for recording (the guitar parts don't have to be edited as much to make them sound more "equal" and thus "better" - you will always expect the guitar to sound the same in the same parts on a recording).

I'd say, though, that if you were in the same room (but couldn't see the amps) and if you were the one playing the guitar, you'd notice the difference. I didn't believe it at first either, but the difference is there, mainly in response, fullness and things like that. I do believe you could get the overall tone of the Mustang to sound similar than some other amp (I'm guessing you could get it to sound similar than the SS60 as well, but not on the SS60 model, or at least perhaps you could get a very narrow window of where the two sound similar as far as EQ goes), but the feel of the amp will be different, no doubt about it. It won't be as apparent in recordings but it'll definitely be apparent in live situations ;)

Still, the M is awesome bang for buck, I don't think you could find a cheaper and more awesome amp as far as versatility and sound go. But comparing it with amps that cost more than 3 times as much is a bit like comparing a low-end Mercedes to a Ferrari. The difference will be there and the difference will be big, but not just in quality but also in price :wink:

Thanks mate, I do love the SS60 and I don't see myself changing it any time soon - or ever. I mean, I could see myself buying another amp a few years down the line, but (at least now) I can't see myself selling this one :)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 pm
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Subjective test at best and we really don't know if the whole test wasn't skewed in many ways. With that said in this blind test I picked the Mustang sounding better every time and i was most certain I was picking the tube amp. Wrong!

The Mustang has better controlled volume and sound at lower levels, no expensive tubes to replace every year, has a much more diverse sound palette with many effects built in, and is much cheaper, less heavy and, environmentally green. :mrgreen:

My tube amps are getting a lot less use these days.

HIO (Here In Oregon)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:37 pm
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HIO wrote:
The Mustang has better controlled volume and sound at lower levels, no expensive tubes to replace every year, has a much more diverse sound palette with many effects built in, and is much cheaper, less heavy and, environmentally green.


+1

And one of my favorites: If I bump a knob or 2 and they move on the way to the gig .... nothing changes. 8)

Another big bonus - the ability to lock your settings so in the event that you do let someone else use your amp .... nothing changes. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:21 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
HIO wrote:
The Mustang has better controlled volume and sound at lower levels, no expensive tubes to replace every year, has a much more diverse sound palette with many effects built in, and is much cheaper, less heavy and, environmentally green.


+1

And one of my favorites: If I bump a knob or 2 and they move on the way to the gig .... nothing changes. 8)

Another big bonus - the ability to lock your settings so in the event that you do let someone else use your amp .... nothing changes. 8)


+2

Two very great points!

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:26 pm
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mak1965 wrote:
Great review, Anyway, I was looking for new reviews of the M3 and found this? I was wrong also! Check out this blind taste test!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUxBL7mub0A

Glad you like the SS, Very nice amp!
MK



Great test. The mustang sounds way better than the tremolux. Funny to say but the tremolux sounds weak and sterile compared to the Mustang :) hard to believe it costs 2k$

This same guy has another video where it shows some other presets, including a Supersonic preset that sounds quite nice to my ears (Around 3:40 I think)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr9g7vIKR7s


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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:01 am
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I picked the Mustang as well. Just sounded more lively.

I actually checked out his page the day before yesterday. There is a comparison of a TS9 clone with the Mustang Greenbox. Just another confirmation of how great a product line the Mustangs are.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:50 pm
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Well I won't argue that Mustang doesn't have some advantages, like changing multiple stuff with a click of just one button, instead of stomping every effect separately and trying to do it as quickly as possible with a tube amp & pedals, a big number of effects you don't have to buy and no need for tube changes (and, as I said, a constant output for recording).
I had a MIV so it wasn't lighter than my SS60, they both weigh approx the same.

The volume part - well there is a trick with SS60 with which you can get the tubes hot enough for them to distort and keep the volume down - it's got a FX send/return with send levels & return levels. You can engage FX loop via footswitch. Basically you can use this function (just connect the send&return jack with a small jack-jack cable) as a power boost (for solos, something I use it for all the time) or as a power attenuator to get the volume down, but crank the pre-amp enough for the tubes to distort. An awesome feature.

I also agree with you, HIO, that we weren't at the test so we can't know whether it was skewed or not.

strings - I agree that part can be good, although now I do find myself actually setting up EQ at tone checks, rather than just setting up the volume levels and so far I like the result more. Each ambient is different and requires different settings. This would take too much time with Mustang (as I used about 10 presets normally), but it's much easier to do now :)

jedi - I checked out that video :) The sound is nice, although far too much delay mix imho. It's a shame he doesn't play any chords on it as it's easier to hear the difference (well and it would also help if he played the SS as well) rather than on single notes. I did notice he has far more bass and middle on EQ than I have on my SS60 and that was also the EQ I had on the M while testing it.
So like I said, I do believe you could get a narrow window where the two amps sound alike, but the SS model on M does not cover the whole tonal range of the real SS60's burn channel, not even close.

If you do take the response from pick attack and presence of the amp out of the equation (which is something that is not as audible on recordings as in live situations) then the M has a narrow tonal range where it sounds similar to SS60, you'll have to put more middle and bass on the M to get it there and you won't be able to get the whole tonal range of the SS60, but for that very narrow, specific tonal range (most notably where the gain is set for hard rock - think Slash-wise) you could get it to sound similar to the real deal while playing solos. As soon as you switch to chords, it won't sound the same. And as I said, this is a narrow tonal range, the EQ on M has to be set with more middle and bass and you have to forget about response and presence (easy to do while listening a recording, not easy to do while playing live in front of a crowd).

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:23 pm
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hi, I really like SS model on my mustang, but found EQ control on mustang is too sensitive, there is a dramatic change when I turn Bass & Treble around 6 to 8, did real SS like this too?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:21 pm
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Hey, I'll re-check tomorrow and post again on Sunday/Monday after I am 100% sure (I can't access forums from home and no one knows why), but no, as far as I've noticed it changes nicely, in a linear way. I wasn't super attentive to that though, as I was just looking to get the tone I wanted and did it by ear, didn't go to either extremes while doing it. My bass is set to around 6,5 if I remember correctly (I don't have the amp with me here). My treble is set to around 4 :)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:25 pm
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Tried it out - the EQ is very linear on my SS60 :)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:34 am
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oh, thanks for your reply (y)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:55 am
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No problem, let me know if you want me to test anything else :)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang's Supersonic vs real Supersonic 60
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:56 pm
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Here's a list of all the built in Amps and StompBoxes...
http://notelr.com/roheylivne/The-Definitive-Fender-FUSE-List


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