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Post subject: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:14 pm
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Hello, I just bought a Fender Mustang III v2 amp, and I hooked up with my Boss ME-70 in the FX loop. When using one of the Mustang's clean patches/amp models, like the '65 Twin for instance, the ME-70's Mod/Delay/Reverb effects sound fine and like they should, but when using a hi gain patch/amp model like for instance the Supersonic (Burn); they sound awful, like running them in front of an overdriven amp.. So the only logical explanation for this must be that the Mustang's FX loop isn't actually placed entirely after the preamp/tone shaping section with just a clean power amp section after it, like in most other amps (at least that I know of) with an FX loop. So I wonder; where in the Mustang's signal chain is the FX loop placed, and why? And can this be changed in any way, with the software for instance (which I haven't had the chance to try yet)? Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:18 am
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rednebb wrote:
Hello, I just bought a Fender Mustang III v2 amp, and I hooked up with my Boss ME-70 in the FX loop. When using one of the Mustang's clean patches/amp models, like the '65 Twin for instance, the ME-70's Mod/Delay/Reverb effects sound fine and like they should, but when using a hi gain patch/amp model like for instance the Supersonic (Burn); they sound awful, like running them in front of an overdriven amp.. So the only logical explanation for this must be that the Mustang's FX loop isn't actually placed entirely after the preamp/tone shaping section with just a clean power amp section after it, like in most other amps (at least that I know of) with an FX loop. So I wonder; where in the Mustang's signal chain is the FX loop placed, and why? And can this be changed in any way, with the software for instance (which I haven't had the chance to try yet)? Thanks.


I was just reading that V2.1 gives you the option to move your loop I believe

The Fender Mustang III-V (V2) amplifiers Effects Loop can be configured in several ways. If your Mustang III-V (V2) shipped with or is currently loaded with firmware version 2.0, the effects loop is fixed in the "pre amp" position. As of firmware version 2.1, the effects loop is placed in the "post amp" position, and you are now able to switch the "Fx Loop Position" to either "Normal" or Looper Pedal" under the Utilities menu on your Fender Mustang III/IV/V (V.2). This is desirable in particular for those who wish to use Looper pedals as with the Fender Mustang III-V (V1) series amps where the effects loop is fixed in the "post amp"


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:53 am
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My understanding is that the Looper Mode puts the loop after the cabinet emulation so that you could change up the cab sim after a given layer in your loop.

Normal Mode puts the effects loop before the cab sim as your effects loop in an old school setup would be before your signal hits the cab.

Basically, what you're experiencing shouldn't have anything to do with the loop position.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:19 am
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Interesting, and a bit weird.. Are there a 2.1 version out yet?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:50 am
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rednebb wrote:
Are there a 2.1 version out yet?

Yes.

Mustang III-V (v2) Firmware version 2.1 :arrow: LINK

Mustang III-V (v2) Firmware version 2.0 :arrow: LINK

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:38 am
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I had the same issue. There was a rapid response from Fender TSL addressing this issue. Upgrade to v2.1. The either-or options for the effects loop will probably solve your problem.

Note that distortion effects are generally designed to go into an amp's front end (or before a model). To implement this, many floor units now come with stomp/efx loops of their own---to have a send to the front end (input) of your amp. You can tell when the pre-effects have been misrouted because they have an non-responsive, non-dynamic, overly compressed sound. Nothing you do to the effects loop is going to solve driving your amplifier's preamp output into a distortion model and then into an amp/cab model. The old-school acronym for that was GIGO.

Paj
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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:36 pm
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Ok, it seems my amp is version 2.1 already, but I still can't find any way to access the signal flow/FX loop..


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:37 pm
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push the util button a bunch of times and you will get there.

as a sidenote, putting an OD on the post amp will generally sound awful, I would recommend trying it pre-amp and lowering the amp emulation gain to a very low value.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:50 am
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Yes , I know I can push the button twice and see the signal chain of the internal effects, but the FX loop isn't there, and not in the fender Fuse either; in other words, there's apparently no way to change the FX loop placement, it seems to be hidden for some strange reason..?
And I know about effect placement and that an od should be placed before the amp and all that; what I'm trying to do, is to use only the time-based effects on my ME-70 (chorus, delay, reverb etc.) in the FX loop, and to put these after the amp. This works/sounds fine on some of the Mustang's amp models/patches, but not fine at all on others (like for instance the mentioned Supersonic)..


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:23 am
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rednebb wrote:
Yes , I know I can push the button twice and see the signal chain of the internal effects, but the FX loop isn't there,


Ah ok, you are pushing the data wheel.

You have to push the UTIL button (above SAVE button) more times.. until you find (if you have the 2.1 firmware version istalled) menu FX LOOP POSITION , then turning the data wheel you can choose Normal or Looper Pedal.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:31 pm
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Ok, now I found it, thanks! But I swear the FX loop position wasn't there before.. It must have come up automatically when I installed the Fender Fuse software and it upgraded itself to version 2.1.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:17 pm
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rednebb wrote:
.. It must have come up automatically when I installed the Fender Fuse software and it upgraded itself to version 2.1.


Yup!

Paj
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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:41 pm
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But for some reason, whether if I set the FX loop to "normal" or "looper", it sounds much better than it did before the upgrade, so I wonder if the FX loop actually was placed before the amp in v.2.0..?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:00 am
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Can a V1 Mustang or Mustang Floor be flashed to 2.1? Simple question, but I am having a hard time finding the answer...

Thanks,

TJ


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang III (v2) FX loop problem
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:13 am
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rednebb wrote:
But for some reason, whether if I set the FX loop to "normal" or "looper", it sounds much better than it did before the upgrade, so I wonder if the FX loop actually was placed before the amp in v.2.0..?


mmh... interesting. Perhaps the firmware update solved a problem that came with your amp software from factory..

this is the list of changes with the firmware 2.1:

There are various fixes and enhancements in this version including but not limited to:

Added Utility Menu item to configure the Effects Loop insertion to better facilitate looper pedal usage. There are two options: Normal and Looper Pedal.
Normal: effects loop is inserted after the internal effects that are located post amp modeling.
Looper Pedal: effects loop is inserted after the speaker cabinet simulation if the headphones are not connected, and after the headphone cabinet simulation if the headphones are connected.

Minor adjustment to the ’57 Champ and 4x12V cabinet simulation to more closely match the modeled cabinets.
Known issues: None.


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