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Post subject: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:36 pm
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Hey has anyone encountered tuning inaccuracy with the onboard tuner on the Mustang V2?

I used to use my GT6 which was accurate enough to even set intonation but I just noticed lastnight that if I tune with only the LEDs on the amp, the Low E is off. Haven't checked this with fuse hooked up but just throwing it out there. Don't think its my intonation because if I tune the other strings and adjust based on harmonics all seems good

Now that my GT6 is gone I'm thinking my next purchase might need to be a tuner.

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:06 pm
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I know that the version 1 of the mustang amp came with Amplitube Fender LE software, That software has a tuner built in to it, You could test your amps tuner vs the Amplitube tuner, I haven't encountered this problem you speak of and when I tune using my amps tuner it is within 3 cents of tuning with amplitube, If amplitube shows the same as your amp it's all good, the amplitube tuner is accurate


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:39 am
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Yes this is true, I have noticed that the Mustang tuner is good enough for a live situation, but not for recording (if you record two guitars tuned with the mustang tuner you will notice that they are not tuned perfect to eachother), I just bought a Korg CA1 which will work for bass and such also, better tune all instruments with the same tuner (both in live and studio-situations).

I have also noticed that different tuners tune different (it shows +5 cents in guitar rig 5 and -4 cents in amplitube if I have both open next to eachother), so to use the same tuner for everything is highly recommenden)


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:07 am
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My Mustang II tuner is very accurate. The problem you mentioned is with the Low-E string. Here's MY problem with the Low-E.

I can tune the Low-E perfectly, but then any fretted note near the nut will be sharp. So I INTENTIONALLY tune Low-E slightly flat (just barely Red-Green). Then I will fret G (3rd fret) and play it on the tuner to make sure it's exactly at Green.

Doing this, I've never had problems playing live OR recording. It's a quirk of the string and the guitar, not the tuner. Try this out and see what happens.

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:09 pm
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I find my tuner to be accurate on my amp VS. Amplitube's tuner with a difference of + or - 3 cents. assuming that Amplitube is correct in the first place that is pretty darn close to me,


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:53 pm
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FFXIhealer wrote:
My Mustang II tuner is very accurate. The problem you mentioned is with the Low-E string. Here's MY problem with the Low-E.

I can tune the Low-E perfectly, but then any fretted note near the nut will be sharp. So I INTENTIONALLY tune Low-E slightly flat (just barely Red-Green). Then I will fret G (3rd fret) and play it on the tuner to make sure it's exactly at Green.

Doing this, I've never had problems playing live OR recording. It's a quirk of the string and the guitar, not the tuner. Try this out and see what happens.


Actually what you're talking to isn't a "problem" really. The thing is that you can't set up the intonation of guitar to be perfect on every fret throughout the whole neck. Some frets are bound to be sharp (such as usually the first 3 frets) and some frets are bound to be flat (usually the frets after the 15th).
However a human ear has learned to ignore these small imperfections on fretted strings (especially for chords), whereas it will pickup open-string pitch imperfections a lot quicker.
You can also make the note sound flat or sharp depending on where on a fret you press the string down. Jimi Hendrix is an extreme example of what can be done with a detuned guitar - I recall reading an interview with one of his roadies who said that on one show after Jimi handed him his guitar, the guitar was completely out of tune. However, when Jimi played it sounded like it was tuned perfectly. Try fretting the first G on Low-E. Try fretting it just before the G# fret and then try fretting it just after the F# fret. Try to put the finger as close to the fret as possible. Also have your tuner on and check what it shows when you put fingers in a different place within the 3rd fret. The difference does also depend on guitars, but it is a big one. My Gibson Les Paul isn't as sensitive about this as my Fender Strat, but the differences are there.

Imho it's best to tune open strings in perfect pitch and then set up the intonation first to be perfect at the octave, 12th fret, then 6th fret, then try to set up all of the other frets as best as possible and try to compensate with fingers on those frets that aren't in perfect pitch, rather than by detuning open strings to be a bit flat (because in your case, all the other frets will then be flat as well, except the first 3 or 4, whereas the frets from 15th onwards will be even more flat than the frets from 4-15).

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:16 pm
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FFXIhealer wrote:
Here's MY problem with the Low-E.

I can tune the Low-E perfectly, but then any fretted note near the nut will be sharp. So I INTENTIONALLY tune Low-E slightly flat (just barely Red-Green). Then I will fret G (3rd fret) and play it on the tuner to make sure it's exactly at Green.


With wound strings, and especially the E, the frequency dies off as the volume goes down. This problem becomes less as you fret, because the string length shortens. Even a couple of frets up, the effect is significantly diminished.
in short, if you tune by gently picking the E and tuning to the sustain sound, it will be way too sharp for actual playing. You have to pick it as hard as you play it, and tune it at the pick sound, not the sustain sound.

Going to a string with a higher core to winding ratio may also help. That usually means a thinner string. If you have a .056 now, going to a .052 might help.


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:35 am
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arth1 wrote:
FFXIhealer wrote:
Here's MY problem with the Low-E.

I can tune the Low-E perfectly, but then any fretted note near the nut will be sharp. So I INTENTIONALLY tune Low-E slightly flat (just barely Red-Green). Then I will fret G (3rd fret) and play it on the tuner to make sure it's exactly at Green.


With wound strings, and especially the E, the frequency dies off as the volume goes down. This problem becomes less as you fret, because the string length shortens. Even a couple of frets up, the effect is significantly diminished.
in short, if you tune by gently picking the E and tuning to the sustain sound, it will be way too sharp for actual playing. You have to pick it as hard as you play it, and tune it at the pick sound, not the sustain sound.

Going to a string with a higher core to winding ratio may also help. That usually means a thinner string. If you have a .056 now, going to a .052 might help.


He can tune the low open E like he said. The problem is not in tuning for him, it's in the intonation of the guitar or rather how it can't be perfectly pitched on every fret.
If the tuner doesn't pickup the low-E, like you said it doesn't, then it's better to buy a new tuner or to put the magnets a bit closer to the low strings. You have to pluck the string in a normal way, preferably with fingers, as plucking it too hard will actually result in the note being sharp and therefore it will sound sharp when you pluck strings normally during playing. But like you said, you shouldn't tune it to the sustain sound either.

You have to pluck the string nicely, gently, preferably with fingers, to achieve the best tuning.

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:54 am
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Personally I find the Mustang tuner as accurate as any other.

I have a related question. To get the most accurate tuning, I pluck the strings over the 12th fret, with my thumb, to get as 'pure' a root note as possible with minimal overtones. I wonder if that's actually the best way to do it, or what others have found works well for them?

Once a string is tuned, I then also then play octave (ie 12th fret) harmonics and see if those are still accurately in tune, as well as the fretted (12th fret again) octave note. Depending on the instrument, it's sometimes a compromise to get all three of those as close as possible to the right frequency.

Then, if all else fails, turn volume and gain to 11 and play hard and loud :-)


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:26 am
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I think you method is ideal but it presumes perfect intonation of all strings.

I have found than in many not-the-best quality guitars a common problem is that the nut is either too close or too far away from the 1st fret. In those cases no matter how much you adjust your bridge or saddle, if you tune for your open strings, any fretted string will sound sharp or flat (particularly the 1st fret)

In those cases I would say that, if you mostly play rhythm guitar it would be better to tune with open strings. If you mostly play solo/picking what I do is to tune on the 1st fret (not the nut) and check on the 12th fret.


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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:04 am
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Thanks for all the responses.

I had a busy weekend so didn’t really get a chance to inspect further so will be hooking up to fuse and checking against the tuner in the software as well as through amplitube. Might be a good time as well to check my intonation. Did it a while back but probably a good time to do it again.

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:27 am
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captainc wrote:
Thanks for all the responses.

I had a busy weekend so didn’t really get a chance to inspect further so will be hooking up to fuse and checking against the tuner in the software as well as through amplitube. Might be a good time as well to check my intonation. Did it a while back but probably a good time to do it again.


Just don't forget to put new strings on it to set up the intonation or to do a thorough test :P Worn strings don't really give you a good point of reference for tuning and especially not for intonation :P

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:49 am
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Thanks,

The only reason I question the tuner is if I tune it based on harmonics or the fifth fret against the open A, both an open E chord and an open G chord sound correct. I did in fact have a problem with the frets close to the nut as another poster mentioned which was due to my LSR nut being shimmed to high. As soon as I removed the shims and reset the intonation it was as perfect as you can expect down the fretboard. But definitely could use a check I suppose especially if the majority don’t seem to have any issues. Might go pick up some new strings. Debating whether I should throw my Lace PUP back in the bridge while I have them off… I kinda miss that PUP.

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:14 pm
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No problem. Bare in mind that by putting on a different pickup you'll likely have to re-set the intonation anyway, as the magnetic pull of pickups can be enough to disturb the intonation of guitars. Thus any hot pickups, especially when they are too close to the strings, will cause problems for tuning and intonation.
Different string sets will also mean you have to reset the intonation, especially if they are also a different gauge ones. I've been using the Ernie Ball regular slinkies 10-46 on both of my guitars, as I like them the most. Now I've decided to go for 11s on my Gibson LP to have a better sustain (and because strings on Gibson LPs feel lighter than on Fender Strats, there won't be any real difference in the finger feeling, it will be more like when I play the Strat) and have bought several different EB 11s to test out which will sound best to me. I will likely be setting the intonation all over again every time I change the strings until I find a set I like the most. The strings will have the same gauge but different materials and composition, thus magnetic interaction with the pickups will also be different. Once I find the strings, I will again be sticking to them so I won't have to set up the intonation as often, like I do for my Strat :)

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Post subject: Re: Accuracy of tuner on MIIv2
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:18 am
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by the way...
i installed Guitar Pro 6 to try it and the digital tuner included is one of the worst i have ever seen...
I do not know if it depends on the fact that it is a first release of vers. 6, but that tuner has the responsiveness of a snail! when you play a string, initially reacts, it remains active for a few seconds, then the needle back to zero and before it reacts back to the string played spend several seconds ..
while the digital tuner (including strobe function) in Guitar Rig 5 is outstanding.

certainly by the time I rely on TuxGuitar 1.2 ... free, and there are probably all the functions that can be used to create a midi file or a score ...
who said it that the stuff a surcharge always better than open source?
many times indeed there are free programs very complete and valid.


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