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Post subject: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:34 am
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Who loves the Champ model? I do!

I have no idea what a real Champ sounded like, but I love the tone of the Mustang's Champ model regardless. Really cool change-of-pace crunch (but stays clean enough to allow arppeggioing), IMO.

I don't think I've seen much discussion of that here.

Everyone loves the Deluxe(s), Twin, Bassman, etc models.

What about Champ? Yet another awesome sound the Mustang can give us, no?

The reason I want a v2 is basically that I expect at least 2 of the new models to be really fun too. 16 good amp models in one (I have no need for and don't like the metal 2000s one).

- Fender Thrift: Fender Silvertone
- Fender Twin '57 (used by Red Hot Chili Peppers A LOT)
- British Watts: Hi-Watt
- British Colour: Some orange-amp, hi-gain, thick bottom, for modern rock or metal

What do folks think of these 4 with not-too-much gain. Cool sounds and authentic compared to the real thing?

So the Champ is a "boxy" sound on purpose? Is that accurate? That's what the real thing is?

At the same time, I cannot imagine anyone, if they had to have only one amp, wanting a real Champ and limiting themselves to only that sound, without also being able to switch to a Princeton/Deluxe clean like we Mustang owners can. That's assuming the Mustang's tones are authentic enough to be good enough.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:42 am
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At first I didn’t give a rats tush about trying out the champ but then I just decided to play around with it one day and had so much fun with it. Sounds really great with just a little spring verb and some simple blues licks. I was never a huge fan of straight up blues but it really changed my tune (no pun intended). Now I find myself wanting to catch up on a lot of roots blues I should have studied all these years.

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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:21 am
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captainc wrote:
At first I didn’t give a rats tush about trying out the champ but then I just decided to play around with it one day and had so much fun with it. Sounds really great with just a little spring verb and some simple blues licks. I was never a huge fan of straight up blues but it really changed my tune (no pun intended). Now I find myself wanting to catch up on a lot of roots blues I should have studied all these years.


yeah it's just such a cool tone. kind of like "small and boxy" on purpose.

yet another thing I like about the mustang is being able to change tones (entire amps) AFTER I play and record something using my looper pedal. So I play something--an entire song; the first loop can be up to 5 minutes--using real clean deluxe tone (or twin or princeton...doesn't even matter). Then I can mess around with different amps and EQ and effects and hear the same exact track (my playing) on different tones.

And the Champ tone is often really good for that. Gives me a crunch but does not turn to total mush even if I have 3 or 4 tracks recorded going through the same amp. Also sounds awesome with my real crybaby wah pedal for solos.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:18 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
yet another thing I like about the mustang is being able to change tones (entire amps) AFTER I play and record something using my looper pedal. So I play something--an entire song; the first loop can be up to 5 minutes--using real clean deluxe tone (or twin or princeton...doesn't even matter). Then I can mess around with different amps and EQ and effects and hear the same exact track (my playing) on different tones.

That's a great way to demo changes in tone, thanks for sharing.


sleepy


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:19 pm
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sleepyEDB wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
yet another thing I like about the mustang is being able to change tones (entire amps) AFTER I play and record something using my looper pedal. So I play something--an entire song; the first loop can be up to 5 minutes--using real clean deluxe tone (or twin or princeton...doesn't even matter). Then I can mess around with different amps and EQ and effects and hear the same exact track (my playing) on different tones.

That's a great way to demo changes in tone, thanks for sharing.


sleepy


yeah dude that's how I record youtube vids. If I could actually play it would be a great method to do some amazing stuff. You can put your guitar down and fix models, EQ etc after you've played. unlike with a real tube amp where you'd have to set your tone before you record. yet another awesome thing about mustangs for recording.

I have original songs (instrumentals because I can't sing) on youtube and I have "alternate takes" that are really the exact same playing (same 4 tracks being played by the looper pedal) where one is a "clean" version and the other is crunchier.

back to the champ.... too much high gain turns to mush with too many tracks through a looper, but the champ is a good tone to crunch it up a little while letting everything still be heard.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:21 am
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captainc wrote:
At first I didn’t give a rats tush about trying out the champ but then I just decided to play around with it one day and had so much fun with it. Sounds really great with just a little spring verb and some simple blues licks. I was never a huge fan of straight up blues but it really changed my tune (no pun intended). Now I find myself wanting to catch up on a lot of roots blues I should have studied all these years.



Yup. Blues is the foundation of most modern non-symphonic music. Understanding and having a firm grasp of how to play the blues is absolutely essential.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:40 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
Yup. Blues is the foundation of most modern non-symphonic music. Understanding and having a firm grasp of how to play the blues is absolutely essential.

That's a rather bombastic statement, which is a good indicator that it's false.
And indeed, most modern music doesn't pitch bend toward natural harmonics and won't touch the flattened fifth at all. If you had said pentatonic scales and shuffles, you would have covered more. But that's still not an universal truth.

Knowing your blues is quite useful, and well recommended. But it's obviously not "absolutely essential", as there are quite a few great musicians with no roots in blues.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:16 pm
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Her Wanna, if you want to know what a real Fender Champ sounded like listen to The James Gang - Funk 49 that's what Joe Walsh used when they recorded it in the studio back in the day.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:18 am
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Big Easy Blues wrote:
Her Wanna, if you want to know what a real Fender Champ sounded like listen to The James Gang - Funk 49 that's what Joe Walsh used when they recorded it in the studio back in the day.


Cool, thanks! And youtube and Her Wanna are at your service, people:



Hey can you point to any other songs you know were recorded on a Champ?


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:24 am
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I am not 100% certain, but if I recall correctly it was one Eric Clapton that used to record with it - take a look at Layla, for instance ;)

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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:28 am
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Neimenljivi wrote:
I am not 100% certain, but if I recall correctly it was one Eric Clapton that used to record with it - take a look at Layla, for instance ;)


Well gee that's a pretty good tone (understatement of the year) if that's true.


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:23 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
What about Champ? Yet another awesome sound the Mustang can give us, no?


Definitely. I was playing a show that featured a song where the guitar sounded like it was through a small amp. So I used the Champ model to replicate the 'boxiness' - it really worked out great.

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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:32 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
What about Champ? Yet another awesome sound the Mustang can give us, no?


Definitely. I was playing a show that featured a song where the guitar sounded like it was through a small amp. So I used the Champ model to replicate the 'boxiness' - it really worked out great.


Yeah. As I think through it, the Champ model is--subconsciously--one of the reasons I just chose to buy an M3v2 over a real Princeton. For now at least, what I want/need is varied sounds (all of them good). And Champ is a really cool, very different cool tone from the princeton/twin/deluxe clean tone. Such a fun change of pace. Then of course we have the others models that are also great. Just an amazing thing--17 amps inside one box and they all sound like the real tube amp.

Like, the champ and the 65 deluxe/princeton tones are both GREAT, but I could not imagine having *only* one or the other. Sometimes I want the deluxe type clean and other times I want the champ sound.

I can't wait to get my new M3. And supposedly they even improved the tone from v1?

If that's true it kind of upsets me due to my OCD. I kinda thought the tones were great on the v1 M4. If I end up finding the v1 M4 sounds noticeably less good, I will think I need to re-record everything I've been doing lately and sell the v1, which is worth almost nothing as even new ones are now $299 as we all know.

I'm hoping, in other words, that I still like my M4v1 even after I get my M3v2 and the difference is M3's portability (and more models and stomp effects). (Part of this feeling is that I'm a little OCD, I flat out admit it....like I kind of don't like how v.2s came out so soon after v1 that I already loved (except to fix the fizz--I had no fizz problem)...like these amps are iPhones that need to be upgraded every year???... this kind of goes against the idea that these are "real amps" if you get my drift. I kind of want to think that my M4v1 will have a tone that is considered pro-level TWENTY years from now! If the modeling amps are so much better in 20 years, then would that not mean that we are all simply wrong to be saying, today, that our mustangs sound just like a tube amp?)

What I'm also getting at is "we've been lied to." Follow me here. Not talking about "the fizz." If it really is true that v2 mustangs significantly improved the basic amp models, then what we thought was so good with v1 was not? V1s just came out a little over 2 years ago and everyone (except cork sniffers) thought *then* that they sounded just like the real thing. So how can something that already sounds just like the real thing be made to sound even more like the real thing? 100 out of 100 is a max score (and I thought the v1 mustangs already achieved max score re: copying the real amp's tone?). So in the absence of fizz, if just the basic fizz-free amp models have been "improved," then they must not have been perfect the first time.

yeah this message is very rambling I need more coffee


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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:19 pm
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My other guitarist uses M3 v1, I use M4 v1. All I can say is that there is a really noticeable difference as 3 has only one speaker, while 4 has 2 12" thrown in. The sound of M4 with the same guitar, same preset etc., is much better than the M3.
That being said, I don't know what's the master knob on his M3, I'm guessing around 6, but my amp at master 4 works like a charm ;) So if you can put your master on M4 to at least 3, I'd say you're better off, tone-wise, with a M4. You will have a much better tone if you put the volume and gain of preset lower and compensate with a higher master as well.

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Post subject: Re: Champ Love (Mustang Style)
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:48 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Big Easy Blues wrote:
Her Wanna, if you want to know what a real Fender Champ sounded like listen to The James Gang - Funk 49 that's what Joe Walsh used when they recorded it in the studio back in the day.


Cool, thanks! And youtube and Her Wanna are at your service, people:



Hey can you point to any other songs you know were recorded on a Champ?


Rocky Mountain Way is another good example.

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