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Post subject: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:38 am
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I've read a lot about tube amps and how lower wattage is better, especially for home use/practice because you have to get them cranked up to a certain point to get the "sweet spot" with the tubes. I've also read that this is one of the benefits of a SS amp, because without the tubes they will sound better at lower volumes.

That being said, do SS amps suffer from low volume as well when it comes to the sound/tone of the amp? I bought a Mustang 4 about a year ago and went with it partly because of the higher wattage, and partly because of large number of presets. My thinking when I bought it was "just get the higher end model, so you don't end up having to sell it later (losing money) to upgrade later and wish you'd just spent the money in the 1st place.
I live in a small house and play in my living room and my master volume has only been set over 2 once or twice. I often play along with vinyls with my stereo volume halfway up, with Mustang master volume at 2 and amp volume in fuse set at 5. It sounds fine when I'm playing along with records, but if I'm just playing on my own it just doesn't seem to sound "right".

I'm a complete noob when it comes to amp and effects settings, and find it very difficult to dial in settings that make me happy with the sound. For example, when playing power chords on the low E it sounds nice and "Beefy", but I move down a string and it sounds too thin. (Best I can explain it) I've wondered if it's just because I don't know how to set it up right, or if it's just because there's no bass and drums "filling out" the overall sound, or if I just have a preference for the way tube amps sound and just didn't know it. While shopping around for the SG standard I just got I met with a guy from craigslist that had a fender tube amp (don't remember the model) and immediately noticed how nice the amp sounded.

But... back to my original question. Could part of my problem be I have a higher wattage amp that I'm barely turning up? Would I have been better off with a Mustang I? Or is it just my inability to dial in the settings that would give me what I want? I won't go into whether I should switch to tube amps for this post... from what I've seen on most forums that debate is usually 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Oh, and I do try adjusting volume/tone controls on the guitar, and it does sound much better now that I have my SG Standard... it's just not quite where I want it.


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:54 am
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daemonseed wrote:
I've read a lot about tube amps and how lower wattage is better, especially for home use/practice because you have to get them cranked up to a certain point to get the "sweet spot" with the tubes. I've also read that this is one of the benefits of a SS amp, because without the tubes they will sound better at lower volumes.

That being said, do SS amps suffer from low volume as well when it comes to the sound/tone of the amp? I bought a Mustang 4 about a year ago and went with it partly because of the higher wattage, and partly because of large number of presets. My thinking when I bought it was "just get the higher end model, so you don't end up having to sell it later (losing money) to upgrade later and wish you'd just spent the money in the 1st place.
I live in a small house and play in my living room and my master volume has only been set over 2 once or twice. I often play along with vinyls with my stereo volume halfway up, with Mustang master volume at 2 and amp volume in fuse set at 5. It sounds fine when I'm playing along with records, but if I'm just playing on my own it just doesn't seem to sound "right".

I'm a complete noob when it comes to amp and effects settings, and find it very difficult to dial in settings that make me happy with the sound. For example, when playing power chords on the low E it sounds nice and "Beefy", but I move down a string and it sounds too thin. (Best I can explain it) I've wondered if it's just because I don't know how to set it up right, or if it's just because there's no bass and drums "filling out" the overall sound, or if I just have a preference for the way tube amps sound and just didn't know it. While shopping around for the SG standard I just got I met with a guy from craigslist that had a fender tube amp (don't remember the model) and immediately noticed how nice the amp sounded.

But... back to my original question. Could part of my problem be I have a higher wattage amp that I'm barely turning up? Would I have been better off with a Mustang I? Or is it just my inability to dial in the settings that would give me what I want? I won't go into whether I should switch to tube amps for this post... from what I've seen on most forums that debate is usually 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Oh, and I do try adjusting volume/tone controls on the guitar, and it does sound much better now that I have my SG Standard... it's just not quite where I want it.


put master volume way up at 4 (sounds scary, right?) and use volume dial for individual presets to get it down....that knob is less sensitive.

I've had M4 since 2011 (version 1) and I love mine.

also how much do you play? the speakers break in like a "real" amp.

also start with basic amps and just add gain and overdrive and a touch of reverb (not more than 3) to suit your liking...forget all the overdone presets that come with the amp

it is not possible to dislike the tone of any of the basic fender clean amps or anything other than the metal model as long as EQ is reasonable.

also I should have answered your question. it does suck to never be able to turn it past 2, but that's not the amp's fault. everyone knows that tube amps don't sound good at low volume--even tube snobs say that.

your M4 is a beast amp and if you can get away with it considering neighbors or whatever, turn it up to 5 one time...use simple model such as the twin with overdrive pedal and you will notice that your amp is a beast.

oh your other questions. no M1 is a closed back horrific-sounding toy. stick with M4, which has decent celestians.

um....tube amp will have at least as bad problem if you can't turn up in your playing situation.

I'm considering a 2nd amp right now and I'm leaning towards mustang 3 over princeton reverb for that exact reason. I have to face the reality that MY playing situation (sounds similar to yours) is at home and mustang might be *better* tone at low volume, not to mention the many possibilities.

I'll be more clear: I think that for us lovers of the sound of an electric guitar, EVERY amp and every speaker system suffers from low volume because we want to hear it! I play clean a lot and yeah....I totally get what you are saying. I don't think it's a function of SS vs tube....your M4 amp is a beast including on clean tones...can give you that "bell" or shimmering tone that you can "feel" in your ears. That's what we want. The volume needs to be up a little bit to satisfy us....but you would not be better off with an M1 over an M4, IMO.

The problem you and i seem to have is not having a practice space where we can turn it up.

I took my M4 to a secret open mic (long story) just last week where the owner of a place let me mess around for fun, so I got to turn my mustang up to master on 5 with preset volumes on 8, and it was LOUD and also clear and good tone and it made me really like my amp a lot.

Get back home...back to playing with volume on 2....and, yeah....it sucks by comparison. I "feel you" re: your OP. It's simply not as fun to play so quiet, and I'm talking about clean tones, too, not any kind of Nirvana or metal distorted stuff. The CLEAN tones need tto be up a little, to allow for dynamics (responsiveness to pick attack). In fact I have taken more and more to being a less good neighbor and giving myself some headroom and working on pick attack to control volume. I actually think that having the amp so quiet harms my actual playing because I don't want to bang away at the strings as hard as possible on every note,which I do when vol is low just to try to hear it, like I'm trying to improve the amp's tone by playing harder. well...it's not the amp's fault if I have it at 2, I have to remind myself. put your M4 with volume on 3.5 or 4 and you'll see the amp is great.

the problem is the modern world -- nowhere to turn it up. in other other words, I can't imagine any other amp, tube or SS, sounding any better than your amp at the low volume you are talking about. ALL guitar amps are made to turn it up a little!!!

What sucks is not being able to turn it up based on WHERE you are playing.


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:23 am
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Thanks for the reply, and I'll take a shot at that when I get home.

As far as how much I play; I played at least an hour or two per day when I bought the amp about a year ago, but nowadays I mostly play during commercial breaks most days so my son doesn't have to hibernate in his room to watch TV. That plus playing along with a few songs on the stereo just before he goes to bed. That combined with my girlfriend going back to school and studying constantly, it's dropped my playing time a decent amount. (I love my family, but it sure does have it's drawbacks sometimes, lol)

It's actually not all their fault, sometimes I'm just so exhausted from work, I don't feel like learning anything new, and get tired of playing the same old songs over and over. Although, since I got my SG it's got me more and more motivated. I freaking LOVE playing that thing. I know a better guitar doesn't make you a better guitar player... but when you go from economy guitars to a beauty like this... it sure makes you want to keep your hands on it. lol. It sounds soooo much better than my cheap Ibanez.

I'll let you know my results from what you suggested. Don't know why I never thought of trying that. I had no idea about the break-in for speakers. I would think after a year they would be... but like I said I don't play as much as a lot of you do, and I've gone a week or two here and there without playing at all, so maybe not.

I'm going to try your other advice this weekend when the GF isn't studying, or preferably out shopping or something, and crank that baby up. I think the highest I've ever had it was 3.

Also, what are your thoughts on effects pedals vs the built in effects? I haven't gone out and bought any pedals yet because I have no idea which ones would sound good to me and whether I'd want distortion/fuzz/overdrive/"hybrid"/etc...


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:13 am
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daemonseed wrote:
Thanks for the reply, and I'll take a shot at that when I get home.

As far as how much I play; I played at least an hour or two per day when I bought the amp about a year ago, but nowadays I mostly play during commercial breaks most days so my son doesn't have to hibernate in his room to watch TV. That plus playing along with a few songs on the stereo just before he goes to bed. That combined with my girlfriend going back to school and studying constantly, it's dropped my playing time a decent amount. (I love my family, but it sure does have it's drawbacks sometimes, lol)

It's actually not all their fault, sometimes I'm just so exhausted from work, I don't feel like learning anything new, and get tired of playing the same old songs over and over. Although, since I got my SG it's got me more and more motivated. I freaking LOVE playing that thing. I know a better guitar doesn't make you a better guitar player... but when you go from economy guitars to a beauty like this... it sure makes you want to keep your hands on it. lol. It sounds soooo much better than my cheap Ibanez.

I'll let you know my results from what you suggested. Don't know why I never thought of trying that. I had no idea about the break-in for speakers. I would think after a year they would be... but like I said I don't play as much as a lot of you do, and I've gone a week or two here and there without playing at all, so maybe not.

I'm going to try your other advice this weekend when the GF isn't studying, or preferably out shopping or something, and crank that baby up. I think the highest I've ever had it was 3.

Also, what are your thoughts on effects pedals vs the built in effects? I haven't gone out and bought any pedals yet because I have no idea which ones would sound good to me and whether I'd want distortion/fuzz/overdrive/"hybrid"/etc...


wow you sound exactly like me. my time to play is weekends but I have 2 daughters and try to give them my attention. also I had a GF and I basically pushed her away because I needed more guitar time.. no joke. now I miss her. grass is always greener. funny I try to be a good dad and one way is not letting kids watch TV all day, but I need my guitar time too. trying to set example for them -- learn a musical instrument don't watch TV like a zombie.

but another way to break in speakers is to use the mp3 input...some day when nobody is home play your mp3 player through it all day..... do that every day for a week. if you don't have the right cord, for $20 buy the right size cord that runs from headphone output to the mustang.....play mp3 through the mustang. I used mine for that a lot and I think that helped with break in. but definitely when I got it I was disappointed and the tone sounded " far away" and brittle, and now I love it and I really think the speakers change A LOT after break in.

funny...look for all my recent threads about how I'm afraid I hurt my amp with a real overdrive pedal.

also I have v1. supposedly v2 is better with pedals and has more internal ones.

my advice when GF is studying is to walk up behind her and grab her boobs and kiss her neck so she gets goosebumps. she will love that. I shoulda done that more when I had the chance.

I've been playing 3 years as much as I can and am at the point where I want to be in a band and even do solo open mic stuff, and like I said I am literally weighing getting a princeton or deluxe tube amp or new v2 mustang and I might conclude that mustang sounds better "pound for pound" regardless of price. it has won "blind" tone tests against the real deluxe...also are threads showing that on this forum with link to the soundcloud files and indeed the mustang sounded way better. and that's clean...not to mention the mustang can nail Nirvana and everything in between.

look for threads on this part of the forum started by me and you'll find a lot of discussion (from other knowledgeable folks) about mustang vs. tube amp... lot of the same questions you're having.


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:30 pm
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i hope some more experienced people weigh in on this.

I had the same question.

I think M4 gives good tone at low volume and I think because it's SS it is actually exactly the same tone as at high volume just like when you listen to your iPod or home stereo system, even a good one, it's likely SS.

But 150W 2X12 is indeed a lot of power so it's not being pushed at all at low volume.

Does M3, which can also get loud, sound slightly better at low volume, having only one speaker?


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:32 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
daemonseed wrote:
Thanks for the reply, and I'll take a shot at that when I get home.

As far as how much I play; I played at least an hour or two per day when I bought the amp about a year ago, but nowadays I mostly play during commercial breaks most days so my son doesn't have to hibernate in his room to watch TV. That plus playing along with a few songs on the stereo just before he goes to bed. That combined with my girlfriend going back to school and studying constantly, it's dropped my playing time a decent amount. (I love my family, but it sure does have it's drawbacks sometimes, lol)

It's actually not all their fault, sometimes I'm just so exhausted from work, I don't feel like learning anything new, and get tired of playing the same old songs over and over. Although, since I got my SG it's got me more and more motivated. I freaking LOVE playing that thing. I know a better guitar doesn't make you a better guitar player... but when you go from economy guitars to a beauty like this... it sure makes you want to keep your hands on it. lol. It sounds soooo much better than my cheap Ibanez.

I'll let you know my results from what you suggested. Don't know why I never thought of trying that. I had no idea about the break-in for speakers. I would think after a year they would be... but like I said I don't play as much as a lot of you do, and I've gone a week or two here and there without playing at all, so maybe not.

I'm going to try your other advice this weekend when the GF isn't studying, or preferably out shopping or something, and crank that baby up. I think the highest I've ever had it was 3.

Also, what are your thoughts on effects pedals vs the built in effects? I haven't gone out and bought any pedals yet because I have no idea which ones would sound good to me and whether I'd want distortion/fuzz/overdrive/"hybrid"/etc...


wow you sound exactly like me. my time to play is weekends but I have 2 daughters and try to give them my attention. also I had a GF and I basically pushed her away because I needed more guitar time.. no joke. now I miss her. grass is always greener. funny I try to be a good dad and one way is not letting kids watch TV all day, but I need my guitar time too. trying to set example for them -- learn a musical instrument don't watch TV like a zombie.

but another way to break in speakers is to use the mp3 input...some day when nobody is home play your mp3 player through it all day..... do that every day for a week. if you don't have the right cord, for $20 buy the right size cord that runs from headphone output to the mustang.....play mp3 through the mustang. I used mine for that a lot and I think that helped with break in. but definitely when I got it I was disappointed and the tone sounded " far away" and brittle, and now I love it and I really think the speakers change A LOT after break in.

funny...look for all my recent threads about how I'm afraid I hurt my amp with a real overdrive pedal.

also I have v1. supposedly v2 is better with pedals and has more internal ones.

my advice when GF is studying is to walk up behind her and grab her boobs and kiss her neck so she gets goosebumps. she will love that. I shoulda done that more when I had the chance.

I've been playing 3 years as much as I can and am at the point where I want to be in a band and even do solo open mic stuff, and like I said I am literally weighing getting a princeton or deluxe tube amp or new v2 mustang and I might conclude that mustang sounds better "pound for pound" regardless of price. it has won "blind" tone tests against the real deluxe...also are threads showing that on this forum with link to the soundcloud files and indeed the mustang sounded way better. and that's clean...not to mention the mustang can nail Nirvana and everything in between.

look for threads on this part of the forum started by me and you'll find a lot of discussion (from other knowledgeable folks) about mustang vs. tube amp... lot of the same questions you're having.


Thanks for the reply. My GF is actually pretty supportive of this particular habit of mine. She's actually said the reason it's hard for her to study is because she likes my playing (more than I do btw) and get's distracted listening to me play.

My ex wife is a different story. I used to be heavily into electronic music, and had put down the guitar to pursue it. Mainly because I could never find guys I knew that would get serious about putting together a band. I sold my guitar and amp and bought a synth, and eventually got pretty good at making music with them. I used to put the headphones on and literally not leave the keyboard for hours. My wife at the time absolutely HATED my keyboards. Even though I was in the same room and all she was doing (read: ever did) was watching TV.

My current GF is really supportive of my need to do these things and always tries to reassure me when I complain that I suck at playing guitar. (A year ago I finally picked it back up after 20 years of no guitar and about 10 years of playing nothing at all... long story...)

I'll try your advice on playing some music through the amp. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:44 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
i hope some more experienced people weigh in on this.

I had the same question.

I think M4 gives good tone at low volume and I think because it's SS it is actually exactly the same tone as at high volume just like when you listen to your iPod or home stereo system, even a good one, it's likely SS.

But 150W 2X12 is indeed a lot of power so it's not being pushed at all at low volume.

Does M3, which can also get loud, sound slightly better at low volume, having only one speaker?


Hi, I actually tried the the advice from the guy that replied 1st (can't see his name now since I'm posting on your reply) and that actually did help some. I turned the master volume up and turned down the volume of the preset it it does sound better that way. It's still not perfect, but it's noticeably better. I'm sure part of my problem is I have no clue how to go about getting what I want, and after trying a few different settings here and there I start to get frustrated. I don't even know what certain settings mean, like "presence" on some amps (can't remember other examples), and if using a built in effect settings, EQ, gain, and level settings on the pedal and the amp.

Usually I get irritated and just find the closest preset that's close to what I want, some of which I've edited to get closer to what I want by removing some of the effects and changing the low/mid/high a little.


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:19 pm
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When I bought my M4 I knew it was capable of doing everything I wanted it to do.. But I didn't know how to make it sound like I wanted. I was pretty frustrated at first, but after having spent several hours in FUSE, I got it to sound pretty much like I wanted it to sound :) One thing I found very useful is to change the amp's cabs under advanced amp settings through FUSE. That's what affects the tones A LOT and what can make a good preset sound awesome :) So try that out as well. Try playing around with different knobs in FUSE and see what they do as well ;)

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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:26 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
When I bought my M4 I knew it was capable of doing everything I wanted it to do.. But I didn't know how to make it sound like I wanted. I was pretty frustrated at first, but after having spent several hours in FUSE, I got it to sound pretty much like I wanted it to sound :) One thing I found very useful is to change the amp's cabs under advanced amp settings through FUSE. That's what affects the tones A LOT and what can make a good preset sound awesome :) So try that out as well. Try playing around with different knobs in FUSE and see what they do as well ;)


you don't need fuse to do that. I have not logged into fuse since May 2011


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:50 pm
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You don't need it, but it's a lot quicker and easier to set up everything in FUSE rather than in the amp itself.

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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:22 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
i hope some more experienced people weigh in on this.

I had the same question.

I think M4 gives good tone at low volume and I think because it's SS it is actually exactly the same tone as at high volume just like when you listen to your iPod or home stereo system, even a good one, it's likely SS.

But 150W 2X12 is indeed a lot of power so it's not being pushed at all at low volume.

Does M3, which can also get loud, sound slightly better at low volume, having only one speaker?



I have a M3, and there's something any user needs to know before they get frustrated about how thin, or artificial the Mustang sounds. I made the mistake myself for several months.
As a result of the guitar speaker chosen (on M3 and quite possibly M4 and M5 cabinet too, not sure about M1/2) if you go below a certain amount of overall volume, the speaker starts to respond badly to some frequencies (mostly low and mid-low frequencies) so it does sound bad.
As soon as you increase the volume a bit, everything comes to life. If you hear thru phones it always sounds the same, so I'm pretty sure is related to the speaker itself. As I understand it guitar amp speakers are way more sturdy than regular speakers, so i'm guessing they are kind of lazy when it comes to really low volumes :) but, hey think about it, the M3 speaker is rated to 100 watts, and master volume 2.5/3 is maybe delivering 1-3 watts only, so you are starving the speaker actually :)

In practice, with my guitars, for clean sounds I try to play at master volume 2.5, volume 7'ish because below that I lose half the tone. For crunch tones you may go below down to master volume 2. below master volume 2 it always sounds bad to me no matter the preset.

Increasing the master volume and lowering the volume does some good, as suggested by another poster, but mostly because the volume knob is less sensitive than the master volume.

So, I suggest, try the M3/4/5 at the store at master volume 2.5/3 with a clean tone preset. If you think you will not be able to play at home/den/office/basement-corner at that volume, I think you will be happier maybe with a M1/2


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:46 am
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Magic happens with master Vol on 4/5 on Mustang II. Had the house to myself yesterday for a couple of hours and made that discovery. Same as you discribed Jedi. As soon as I goosed it up past 4 the presets came to life much the same way Frosty did when those kids stuck the old silk hat atop his head.

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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:45 am
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Neimenljivi wrote:
You don't need it, but it's a lot quicker and easier to set up everything in FUSE rather than in the amp itself.


changing amp cab takes 2 seconds and is much easier on the real amp.... takes much longer to hook to a computer and load fuse

you hit amp button twice then main knob 3 times...get to change amp cab

i literally can do everything much faster on amp except changing the order of effects like putting overdrive AFTER the amp or whatever


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Post subject: Re: Wattage on solid state amps?
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:41 am
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When you change the amp cab you'll also likely be changing pretty much all the parameters, from EQ to the position of effects, some advanced amp settings, etc.. So yeah, it is a lot quicker if you do it via comp. 2 clicks of a mouse button beats 5 amp button clicks, imho ;) Especially when you're doing it for more than 1 preset and want to copy the preset somewhere else, make the preset give you some boost for solo and some more overdrive or something, rename it so you know what it's about without remembering the number it's on, etc.

You can do all these things on the amp of course, even rename the preset.. But why go into so much trouble just so you can say you didn't use comp when it's faster if it's done via comp? ;)

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