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Post subject: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:02 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Okay, I understand that the mustang might not like overdrive pedals, but I understood that there is some kind of blocker to protect the circuit board, so the result could be an ugly clipping tone that I don't like, but I would not damage the amp.

Well, I don't think it's damaged, but here's what happened.

I hooked up a TC Electronics Dark Matter pedal and a TC Electronic Gravy Chorus pedal (and a TC looper and Dunlop crybaby, the latter two I've been using for 6 months w/ no problems).

Everything seemed fine (good tones too), and then when I was playing w/ no pedals on, setting was clean princeton w/ no effects, all of a sudden it switched to a totally different present, Bassman overdrive, and nearly blasted my ears (because I had master volume up near 5 because the clean setting I was playing on had preset volume way down at 2, which is normally fine).

So after that I turned it off. I don't think it's damaged but I can't have that happen either at an open mic or at 11 PM when my neighbors are sleeping.

I have never had a single problem w/ this M4 prior to this since I got it in May 2011.

Could it be because the TC distortion pedal "ramps up the voltage to 3 times a normal pedal?"

Also, again, at the precise moment this happened, I did not have any of the pedals engaged (but I had been using them for 30 minutes prior).

Did I fry the mustang so this could happen again?

I was actually planning to use the mustang for an open mic in a few weeks, at which I want to play clean singer/songwriter type stuff....probably will be nobody there to see me but it would kind of suck if it magically switches to some huge overdriven tone when I didn't touch any buttons.


Thanks for any thoughts you might have.


Last edited by Her Wanna on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:44 pm
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SKcoppertele wrote:
No its fine. My mustang jumps presets every now and again. Its just the amp.


dude, thanks and I hope you're right. I've never had this happen in 2.5 years though.

I have had the 4-button footswitch go funky (either all lights on or no lights on) (actually that happens quite a lot but since it's not a tube amp that has to warm up I just turn it off and on when that happens) but never a random preset switch like this. was using in mode 3 by the way....one amp, the buttons turn on and off modeled "pedals"....so tapping a button, which I was nowhere near, would not have even changed a preset...only turned an effect on.

I do see that my TC pedal is badass in that's all analog. I need to get a tube amp.

even if you're right I don't think I'm gonna put the TC distortion pedal into my mustang anymore. lol

also, ya, that's a vote against this amp being giggable! I mean I'm sitting there playing an arppegiated chordy very clean pretty tone thing....than BAM, it's bassman w/ crunchy overdrive super duper loud??? can't happen, even at the open mic I'm gonna do in a few weeks. I'm not Jimi but that would just make me look idiotic.

also now that you've got your egnater, what are you doing here on the mustang section? I haven't seen any updates from you lately...still loving the egnater or are you finding you want to use the mustang for certain things?


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:16 pm
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You have a very Giggable amp. Have been using my III to play out and have had no probs. It's reliable and plenty powerful to handle Small Club/Bar Gigs just fine.
Suggestion:
Use a DB meter to measure your DB level for all the presets you use. Set them so they are all apprx. the same level (within 1-2 db of each other). This way you'll avoid drastic spikes in DB level. Also, you're able to control the amps overall volume by setting the Master where it's at a good volume and don't need to constantly tweak your volume settings. It's good to go for the entire evening ;)
The pedal in question may need to be kept at about 1/4 output level so you don't throw your amp in to clip zone. Match the volume of the pedal engaged to the volume of the amp (I do this by ear every time I plop a dirt pedal in front of the amp). Have found that the level of the pedal is generally around the 10-11 o-clock position when matched to the amps volume level. I use an effect inside of the amp for lead boost (OD, Fuzz, Compressor or Simple Comp). Works nicely.

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:21 pm
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No offense, but I got a big kick out of the mental image I got from this! You must have jumped right out of your skin!

I've done something similar before- it was my fault, though- not the amp's. I had the volume turned up quite a bit to compensate for my very light picking. ( I love the tone it gives me) When I accidentally hit a string a lot harder than I intended, the amp BELLOWED at me full roar... I almost crapped myself! I must have looked like a cat someone startled...

So how do you like your Gravy? I have one also, and mainly use it for the tri-chorus. Beats constantly switching my Corona back and forth between my MIII and my SC X2.

Today I got a bit carried away on my MIII. I was experimenting with stacking dirt pedals in front of it- OCD into an MXR '78 Distortion. Found the perfect combo to make my Strat growl and scream, and the master just magically kept turning up... It was surprising how far I could turn the OCD's volume knob up w/o running into the M's limiter. The '78 just got happier the more boost I fed it.


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:35 pm
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HerWanna these sort of glitches happen more frequently with DSP amps, but electrical glitches can happen with any electrical amp that has multiple settings, I had that happen on my LINE6 SPIDER VALVE a few times. I am certain it has nothing to do with your pedals, and I am certain switching to a valve amp isn't going to keep you 100% clear of any issues while gigging. I think the best thing to do like Strat-Slinger said is to try and get your presets near or around the one you use to be at the same output level to avoid drastic volume spikes if this happens again during gigging.

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:09 am
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I once had my Mustang II move to another preset while I was playing it loud once, but I ended up tracing the problem to the speaker's vibrations gently turning the preset knob. It has no little clicks to keep it in place. When playing it really loud like that (master volume around 7), sometimes the Mod or Reverb knobs will turn slightly from the OFF position to position 1, making what I'm playing sound weird.

Since you're talking about an M3/4/5 amp, I would wager a guess that MAYBE your selector wheel wasn't seated fully in it's click-spot at the preset and that in TRYING to get to a spot, it clicked over to the next preset. You said a random preset, but have you tested that theory? Has it happened again? Can you make it happen again? When you do, check to see what preset you just went to and compare it to the preset you were trying to use.

Maybe it's the engineer in me, but these things go through my mind BEFORE I try posting online or calling up tech support. That way - I save my phone minutes. :lol: (you know, from not trying to DO tests like that while I'm on the phone with the tech support guy...)

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:49 am
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Thanks for all the replies I'm going to reply to comments here instead of quoting a bunch of different people's comments. I'm dictating this but I'm sure you will be able to understand.

First, it seems to be fine today so that is good.

As to the comment about vibration, LOL, but it is a Mustang 4 that weighs 47 pounds And can handle TONS of low-end and I was playing as mentioned preset VOLUME down At 2 to almost a whisper Also it wasn't the wheel clicking into place to a preset next to it or anything like that it was indeed some kind of electrical glitch.
Also good suggestion about volume uniformity overall and normally I do do that. Another words, all of my presets have preset volume between 4.5 and 5.5 (because of course sometimes I do want certain presets to be slightly louder such as for playing Nirvana loud quiet loud type stuff) and in this case I just had turned it down really low because it was late at night and didn't want to bother the neighbor on that one particular clean preset I was using. But yeah in general or if I went to a gig I would have all of the presets individual volumes similar so there wouldn't be some huge jump like what happened to me the other night.

I understand that computers and even tube amps are not perfectly still love my Mustang but I do think in particular my TCU overdrive pedal that is all analog and ramps up the voltage really did cause the glitch that night it's never had a problem in 2 1/2 years previously as I mentioned
Someone asked me how I like the gravy pedal. I like it a lot seems it doesn't do anything better than what the mustang does but I like having it when I get my tube amp one day

By the way the reason I have felt that I needed real pedals is that I mess around with the looper pedal into the front so I need to be able to put overdrive or effects before the looper pedal so that the rhythm tracks can say clean. Does anybody know whether M1 still has the latest firmware update available cause I heard you couldn't really put the looper pedal in the effects loop and have it work properly that's why I've never even tried to do that


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:22 am
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many times what happens is that the change-preset-knob sits in betwwen of changing presets and suddenly (or by the vibrations) it snaps to the new preset.
If you are worried about this in a gig, simply use the footswitch to change presets.


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:19 am
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This reminds me of years ago when I lived in a fourth floor walkup in Brooklyn and came home at 3 a.m. after a night of drinking with some friends. I decided I was going to Rock out at low volume on my Hot Rod Deville. I was feeling like I needed lots of Gain at the moment and cranked it up but lowered the Master volume way way down so not to wake the building. I was perplexed for a minute because I was getting no sound. Then realized “ohhhh the amp is in stand by” I flipped the switch on holy Christmas I got blasted Marty McFly style. In my altered state, I mistankenly had the gain “way down” and the Master Volume Cranked to about 9. You can imagine the people in the building being awaken at 3am to that noise. I shut the thing down immediately and turned off all the lights… wasn’t me LOL. The amp was fine… eventually got stolen though which was a huge bummer… I miss that amp very much.




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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:04 am
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jedi2b wrote:
many times what happens is that the change-preset-knob sits in betwwen of changing presets and suddenly (or by the vibrations) it snaps to the new preset.
If you are worried about this in a gig, simply use the footswitch to change presets.


yes that is exactly what I do...always. and on the night in question...had footswitch on mode 3....one clean amp, buttons would only change effects...i'm not worried about that. the guy playing very loud with a small M2 said that lol.

I've never had that happen as M4 weighs 47 pounds and does not vibrate. like those mattress commercials... I can put a glass of wine on my amp while playing thunderous bass tones.

no...in my case I temporarily freaked out the amp's computer by putting an analog pedal that ramps up the voltage 4 times a normal pedal through it with level on 8.


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:12 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
Could it be because the TC distortion pedal "ramps up the voltage to 3 times a normal pedal?"

Her Wanna wrote:
no...in my case I temporarily freaked out the amp's computer by putting an analog pedal that ramps up the voltage 4 times a normal pedal through it with level on 8.


Why ask if yours is the only opinion you're going to hear? :| :lol:

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:36 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
Could it be because the TC distortion pedal "ramps up the voltage to 3 times a normal pedal?"

Her Wanna wrote:
no...in my case I temporarily freaked out the amp's computer by putting an analog pedal that ramps up the voltage 4 times a normal pedal through it with level on 8.


Why ask if yours is the only opinion you're going to hear? :| :lol:



sorry didn't mean to be rude. am on mobile.

that's not what I did but the vibration theory is definitely not it. that answer doesn't "hear" my OP.....was playing clean tone w/ volume down at 2....very soft, no vibration.
I have also played the thing very loud at times....never had this happen, ever.

the vibration thing admittedly involved an M2 (small box, light) w/ master volume on 7....it can get super loud but that's pushing such a small amp.

heck my 15W solid state 8-inch speaker line 6 can get freakin' loud as hell too....but yeah at super loud volume if there is bass in the tone, it might vibrate.

all I'm saying is...well, first the amp seems to be fine so it's all moot.....but what I experienced was some kind of electrical/computer snafu whereby the amp suddenly switched to a random (not the one next to the one I was using) setting when (1) I didn't touch any button, (2) was playing very quietly and (3) even if I had touched a button, footswitch was on mode 3 where buttons only added and removed the effects assigned to that preset.

it was very freaky and has never happened since May 2011 when I got the amp except right after I put a super-duper analog pedal through it.


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:53 am
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By the way, respectfully Fender, I think this thread qualifies as one of those threads on which Fender could add a comment.

My amp seems fine now, but my question is:

should we not put an all-analog overdrive/distortion pedal in front of the Mustang?

And if we do, is there not a "limiter" or "blocker"--or whatever its called--that might make a harsh, clipped tone that we don't like, but will not allow actual damage to the amp circuit board or computer chip or any other part of the amp?

In other words, I could not actually "fry" my amp by putting a pedal in front of it, right?

That's my question.


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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:06 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
By the way the reason I have felt that I needed real pedals is that I mess around with the looper pedal into the front so I need to be able to put overdrive or effects before the looper pedal so that the rhythm tracks can say clean. Does anybody know whether M1 still has the latest firmware update available cause I heard you couldn't really put the looper pedal in the effects loop and have it work properly that's why I've never even tried to do that

When I practice, I put my looper pedal last in the chain before my amp when using the *Floor*. That is the only way to have all of the different Mustang patches I use play together.

I usually lay down a basic rhythm and then change patches and add a counter rhythm and then might add some simple power chords with another patch and then finally solo away with even another patch and usually will then use my outboard overdrive/distortion and Wah pedals for lead playing and practice.

The looper pedal i have has a very simple and kind of cruddy drum machine built in but you have the option of importing your own drum wave files if you want but only at 16 bit.

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Post subject: Re: DID I FRY MY MUSTANG?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:26 pm
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Quote:
should we not put an all-analog overdrive/distortion pedal in front of the Mustang?

From many other topics, it's fine to use pedals, including overdrive etc pedals, in front of the Mustang.

In other posts in this topic, you mention this particular pedal deliberately has a voltage output three or four times normal instrument line level. I'd suggest such a pedal is the faulty item here; it can validly re-shape/clip the waveform, but if it's trying to get its overdrive effect by deliberately overloading the next stage in the chain then that's just wrong.

Quote:
is there not a "limiter" or "blocker"

There will almost certainly be some sort of buffer on the input which will provide some protection. I doubt if, at this price point, there's anything that will guarantee to protect the rest of the amp from a seriously excessive voltage. However, I would be surprised if 4x line level would do any damage; that's just an opinion, I know no more than anyone else here about the exact Mustang circuitry.


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