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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:02 pm
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Thanks mate, made it myself :) As you can guess, I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan and I want it to show :P

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:08 pm
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captainc wrote:
The “Master Volume” he’s referring too is emulating the Master Volume that is Post Gain but pre-power amp. Handy knob to have and I too wish they all had it.


I still don't get it. I admit it. That's on a real 65 Deluxe Reverb? We are modeling a 65 deluxe reverb for a particular setting. It has one volume knob, no?


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:10 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Her Wanna, I think what HIO meant was the Master parameter in Advanced Amp settings available through FUSE. That Master parameter emulates the difference in sound you'd get if you had a tube amp set with different master volume. So low master = low master volume from tube amp, high master = high master volume from tube amp and the sound changes accordingly (it gets a bit more overdriven, etc.)

It does not override your master knob on the amp itself, instead it is just another one of parameters that emulate tube behavior (like sag and bias are) which also happens to alter the volume of the amp. You save the preset so you can easily turn down the volume of amp and make it more tube-like by setting master in advanced settings higher and retain the volume level you want.

However master parameter is only available for those amps that Mustang emulates that are tube amps and you can't equalize other amps via master parameter in advanced settings. This is what HIO wants. Although I agree it would be useful (although myself, I'd prefer a volume EQ that goes beyond that and can objectively say which presets are louder and for how much - after all the effects and amp parameters), I'd say it's best left out as you'd try to emulate SS amps the same way as tube amps.

So master parameter in advanced amp settings will not change your master volume knob on the amp itself - it will remain at the setting you want it to remain, the master parameter will only emulate more cranked up tubes and will give a higher and more coloured output (and again, you can lower the output to what you want by setting a smaller amp volume parameter).

As for the pre-amp, post-amp - try it. The difference is huge. Might not be as apparent with delays and reverbs, but will definitely be very obvious with stomps and modulation effects.

EDIT: Ahh I see others have responded before me as well


ok now I kind of get it....modeling the "crankedness" of the tube amp....


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:14 pm
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Yes, I gotta take some time and play around with amp a bit now that I've got a better understanding of it than I had 2 and a half years ago when I bought it, but I found out that especially the lead tones are much better with master parameter cranked up a bit :)

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:41 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Yes, I gotta take some time and play around with amp a bit now that I've got a better understanding of it than I had 2 and a half years ago when I bought it, but I found out that especially the lead tones are much better with master parameter cranked up a bit :)


see i'm not good enough to worry about nuances yet....I think the 90s american does just fine with or without pedals or chorus and what I'm concentrating on is playing and finding a practice space where I can turn it up

and finding a drummer and singer


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:55 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Thanks mate, made it myself :) As you can guess, I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan and I want it to show :P


Pink Floyd nerd here too... Guilty as charged.

Don't want to hijack the thread talking about Gilmour so i'll quit there LOL

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:14 pm
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Another way to look at It HW is you might want to emulate the amp pushing much harder without goosing the "Preamp" gain. Preset volume is going to raise everything. FX etc. So a master volume might be an ideal adjustment if that's what you want.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:24 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
captainc wrote:
The “Master Volume” he’s referring too is emulating the Master Volume that is Post Gain but pre-power amp. Handy knob to have and I too wish they all had it.


I still don't get it. I admit it. That's on a real 65 Deluxe Reverb? We are modeling a 65 deluxe reverb for a particular setting. It has one volume knob, no?


Well technically it has two channels with two volume knobs with no switching between channels like on a real Twin but Fender is modelling a real 65 Deluxe Reverb but giving the user a whole lot more controls at our fingertips than one would have on a real 65 Deluxe Reverb.

For example, adjusting a real amps bias should be left for an amp technician or for someone not technically challenged to get it right. In Fuse you would never be able to blow up your amp or burn up some expensive tubes by fiddling with this knob. Capiche, comprende?

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:13 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Neimenljivi wrote:
Yes, I gotta take some time and play around with amp a bit now that I've got a better understanding of it than I had 2 and a half years ago when I bought it, but I found out that especially the lead tones are much better with master parameter cranked up a bit :)


see i'm not good enough to worry about nuances yet....I think the 90s american does just fine with or without pedals or chorus and what I'm concentrating on is playing and finding a practice space where I can turn it up

and finding a drummer and singer


Well the american 90s and metal 2000 just sound too high gain for me. I did use the american 90s for songs like Scotty doesn't know, but I don't play many such songs. Metal 2000 isn't my favourite either, it's just not warm enough for me and waaay to distorted. Twin Reverb is my favourite clean tone, British 70s, 80s and Fender SuperSonic are my favourite overdriven amps. As I found out, the Super Sonic works paired with wah like a charm.
My initial problem when getting this amp was to set a nice, warm, overdriven sound that doesn't have too much gain and fuzz to be honest :lol: I don't really go to all the nuances about changing the parameters for different venues I am playing at - I'd need someone else to play the guitar and amp so I could hear what's missing at the venue, but I am always on a quest for better tone and well I'd always need more time for that and for practicing/writing new stuff itself. Was practicing for about 5h/day, then I found myself a GF :P

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:34 pm
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Hi Jedi , Hi to all,
as mentioned in a previous topic, I used the model, American 90's with the gain almost to the minimum, maximum bias, tweaked eq, and Fuzz model (on / off and gain changed by exp pedal) (+ short tape delay, chorus and spring reverb) to get the powerful tones of the '70s Santana (eg Europa studio and live) ... My guitar is an Yamaha SG precisely.
clearly (as known with regard to the real things) you have to play with the balance between the two volumes of the guitar (as in Les Paul or similar) to obtain sounds quieter and cleaner up to more distorted with sustain.

an alternative to this setup could be based on Fender Supersonic model but does not go so close ..

There are some distortions, or fuzz that are "required" (real or model) in addition to amplifier models because they have their own distinctive tone that goes well with the clean channels or almost clean channels.. i like the Gilmour approach in the '70 , using a clean amp channel and adding distortion with a Fuzz ( Face Arbiter) at very high settings: a good part of distortion is generated in the distortion box itself.
if you put those kind of distortions in an already driven channel you get a completely different tone and dynamics.

by the way...although i don't use it, but the "octave" parameter in the Fuzz model does not seem to be as effective as on a simulation in my Roland pedalboard, the Octavia fuzz ..
I mean, even putting it at the maximum is not added enough sound shifted one octave above expecially if you the "high" eq is not at high settings .. also compared to demo on youtube of different octave fuzz (Octavia, fulltone octafuzz..).
what do you think about? should be improved?

Dimitri
P.S. : speaking of Pink Floyd... this is my facebook cover : Image


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 am
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Man, I listened to Meddle and DSOTM so much back then, that I really find them quite hard to listen to now. Meddle was a touchstone for me..
Of course I do find myself aiming for those DG tones.

Had lots of difficulty with getting smooth OD with my Mustang II though - I find it often gets too gritty, though lately, while I'm not sure what I've done, it does seem much better.

One thing is putting the compressor post amp makes a massive difference, but I'm also turning the guitar down to less than half and turning the amp and/or gain up.
But still gonna get me an external OD or fuzz of some sort - just having the on /off at your foot has got to be worthwhile.

HIO: what's your pedal that sounds good through the Mustang?


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:20 am
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markcc wrote:
Man, I listened to Meddle and DSOTM so much back then, that I really find them quite hard to listen to now. Meddle was a touchstone for me..
Of course I do find myself aiming for those DG tones.

Had lots of difficulty with getting smooth OD with my Mustang II though - I find it often gets too gritty, though lately, while I'm not sure what I've done, it does seem much better.

One thing is putting the compressor post amp makes a massive difference, but I'm also turning the guitar down to less than half and turning the amp and/or gain up.
But still gonna get me an external OD or fuzz of some sort - just having the on /off at your foot has got to be worthwhile.

HIO: what's your pedal that sounds good through the Mustang?


I'm not completely sure whether the MI and MII have the option (I know the III, IV and V have it), but try giving the amp a different cab through fuse (in advanced amp settings). It makes a HUGE difference. I think you have the same problem as I had when I was first searching for good tones.. Cab changes for different presets is what did the trick for me, it worked a lot better than changing the amp volume and gain or adding stomp boxes :)

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:26 am
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markcc wrote:
Of course I do find myself aiming for those DG tones.

Had lots of difficulty with getting smooth OD with my Mustang II though - I find it often gets too gritty, though lately, while I'm not sure what I've done, it does seem much better.


If I could come remotely close to something somewhat in the ball park here I’d be pretty stoked.

At 1:45 - starts out smooth and mellow and just builds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij2vdvL7 ... page#t=104

I had a little bit of luck smoothing out the OD when I tried the Bassman with the 2x12C cab and the standard Mustang OD stomp. I’ll have to try the comp post gain though. I’d be interested in seeing how you fare with a fuzz pedal. I got a silicon Fuzz Face mini and it was great but I had trouble with it on my mustang if I stacked it with OD. Decided to exchange it for a Rat so I’d have a Fuzzy type OD pedal in one box. I’m pretty happy with that box. Seems to go with just about every model I’ve tried it with which the Fuzz Face was way more finicky… kept having to re EQ my amps every time I tried it with something different. A fuzz face type stomp with a tone knob probably would have made a big difference.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:18 am
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ok guys, now you are starting to make a believer out of me.
I always liked the idea of the blackface stomp (a.k.a pro-co rat) but it always sounded like an angry rattle snake in the end.
So I tried the advice of combining stomp with cabinets and I came to a pretty satisfactory sound: as long as the blackface is combined with a SS212 or Champ cabinets it sounds great! the rattle snake is tamed now :) the high end fuzziness goes mostly away and stays in tolerable levels

with that combination, any trebly amp emulation like princeton or british watts goes very well with it, particularly with low gain setting and a noise gate set to minimum to eliminate most of the noise but without hurting much the string dynamics.


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Post subject: Re: Newbie question about distortion
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:35 am
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captainc wrote:
markcc wrote:
Of course I do find myself aiming for those DG tones.

Had lots of difficulty with getting smooth OD with my Mustang II though - I find it often gets too gritty, though lately, while I'm not sure what I've done, it does seem much better.


If I could come remotely close to something somewhat in the ball park here I’d be pretty stoked.

At 1:45 - starts out smooth and mellow and just builds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij2vdvL7 ... page#t=104

I had a little bit of luck smoothing out the OD when I tried the Bassman with the 2x12C cab and the standard Mustang OD stomp. I’ll have to try the comp post gain though. I’d be interested in seeing how you fare with a fuzz pedal. I got a silicon Fuzz Face mini and it was great but I had trouble with it on my mustang if I stacked it with OD. Decided to exchange it for a Rat so I’d have a Fuzzy type OD pedal in one box. I’m pretty happy with that box. Seems to go with just about every model I’ve tried it with which the Fuzz Face was way more finicky… kept having to re EQ my amps every time I tried it with something different. A fuzz face type stomp with a tone knob probably would have made a big difference.



I think the british 80 is a better match than the bassman and I don't think you need any external pedals as the natural overdrive of british 80's should put you on the sweet spot. Take a look at this preset, disable or modify the delay setting.
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... ic-johnson

as an alternative, american 90's with gain set to 1 and a simple compressor at minimum in front of it should be fine too. a good cabinet match would be IMO the 2X12C as you mention.

try it on bridge pickup and adjust guitar volume and tone as it makes a lot of difference.


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