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Post subject: Mustang 3 or 4 as Amp for Vocals?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:12 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I think I may have finally found a singer for my (fledgling) band!!! This one might be serious. I can't sing so I need a singer.

What do folks use to amplify vocals? I'm talking new band--small club gigs, of course.

I was thinking that the M4 or M3 are so powerful that--like with my guitar--these could work and the speakers could even handle it.

It would be into a PA system even in the small venue where I intend to do my first gig, but I'm thinking the M3 could be the singer's monitor too.

Little secret: I have used my little 15W (solid state) 8-inch speaker Line-6 as a vocal amp just messing around and even that is nearly okay but I know the speaker would get blown at higher volume trying to keep up with a drummer and guitar.

But I was thinking the M3 could handle it and it would give me an excuse to pick up an M3 v2.

But guitar amps are not voiced for vocals, which are actually more intense than guitar signal? What do folks in local-gig-type bands use as the vocal amp?

Has anyone used mustang as vocal amp?

EDIT: and also...practice...no PA system there....say a cover band is in a rehearsal space or garage just rocking out....drums, guitar, bass, and singer.....what does the singer plug in to????


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Post subject: Re: Mustang 3 or 4 as Amp for Vocals?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:56 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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In my first band we didn't have any PA or mics or anything so what we did was we got a cheap microphone (actually borrowed it) and plugged it in a 15W guitar amp. It could have been my old Behringer one that I got as part of a guitar kit (for learning, my first guitar & amp), a cheap and a bad one. We practiced in an old garage and the acoustics were terrible in that place. So while the amp did amplify the singer's voice, the sound probably sucked a lot but we just couldn't hear it due to acoustics being so bad that even our amps sounded terrible. The singer wasn't at rehearsals every time though so we just rolled with it.
We have looked at different options and you could get PA good enough to mic the singer and just what a starting band needs for around 200-300€ (without the shipping costs), even cheaper if you buy a used one. So I don't know what MIII v2 goes for right now, but I don't think it's cheaper and it will be bound to sound a lot worse than a speaker actually designed for vocals.

Now since the creation of my new band approx 2 years ago, we have been lucky enough to be able to practice in a semi-pro recording studio for free which also has the PA, mixing desk and everything you need really. In a bit less than 2 years we probably had around 40 gigs or so and at all of these gigs (we've played in small clubs, shopping centers, outdoors, sports halls,..) the monitors and the PA were provided for us (so that we didn't have to stand next to our amps to hear ourselves but could hear everyone from the monitor and that the sound guy could set our sound that the people were hearing almost completely independent from what our amp volumes were set at). In all likelihood the clubs that book musicians have either their own PA system (which normally includes monitors) or rent it. There definitely exist some clubs that might demand you bring your own PA, but you most likely won't encounter one of these.

Unless the venue is very small your amps and drums will be mic'ed as well, so you won't need to push your amps till the end. The most I've set my IV on a gig to was master volume at 6 and preset volume around 7. And we have a VERY loud drummer.

So while a M3 probably wouldn't break in tiny clubs as you wouldn't need to set it as loud, you have to be weary of the fact that the sound will be quite a lot different from when the singers are linked to a real PA and have a real, quality, mic. You might not hear all the mistakes in terms of voice pitch on a M3 and think the singer sings a song good, but linked to an actual PA you might hear that the singer goes a bit flat or a bit sharp very often. It would mask the mistakes, but the mistakes would still be there and would be heard through quality speakers and mic.

Until you get a drummer my advice would be to practice at low volumes (which Mustang also excels at) so that the singer doesn't need anything to amplify the voice. With just a guitar and vocals, that should be pretty easy to manage. Even once you get a bass player it won't be too hard to just keep it at low decibels. You will need a speaker and a mic when the drummer comes along though. Again, my advice would be to look at the options for a cheap PA as, imho, it will sound a lot better and won't cost you much more than a M3.

In either case whether you buy a M3 or a PA, be prepared that if you get a band and everyone chips in - if the band goes apart you'll most likely have to sell it and split the money, or buy it off your ex band mates yourself. In my opinion - if a singer needs PA, it's the singer's duty to buy it, just like you bought your guitar and your amp and like the bassist got his. The drummer in previous band suggested we all chip in and buy her drums for about 1000€ or something like that (some electric stuff), so we could practice at lower volumes due to bad acoustics. Less than a month later the band fell apart (needless to say we weren't dumb enough to buy her a drum set, but some poor schmucks aren't that lucky or smart :P).

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Post subject: Re: Mustang 3 or 4 as Amp for Vocals?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:06 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
In my first band we didn't have...
Until you get a drummer my advice would be to practice at low volumes (which Mustang also excels at) so that the singer doesn't need anything to amplify the voice. With just a guitar and vocals, that should be pretty easy to manage. Even once you get a bass player it won't be too hard to just keep it at low decibels. You will need a speaker and a mic when the drummer comes along though. Again, my advice would be to look at the options for a cheap PA as, imho, it will sound a lot better and won't cost you much more than a M3.

In either case whether you buy a M3 or a PA, be prepared that if you get a band and everyone chips in - if the band goes apart you'll most likely have to sell it and split the money, or buy it off your ex band mates yourself. In my opinion - if a singer needs PA, it's the singer's duty to buy it, just like you bought your guitar and your amp and like the bassist got his. The drummer in previous band suggested we all chip in and buy her drums for about 1000€ or something like that (some electric stuff), so we could practice at lower volumes due to bad acoustics. Less than a month later the band fell apart (needless to say we weren't dumb enough to buy her a drum set, but some poor schmucks aren't that lucky or smart :P).




Really awesome post. Thanks. Funny you mention the drummer who wanted you to buy her drums. The key word there is "her." lol

Actually, funny, since I can't find anyone, what I've been doing is telling lots of women I meet that I need a singer for my band and the idea is that if one actually shows up to practice, I will already have a setup for her...don't need a girl who had the prior idea to sing in a band, as all girls think they can sing and I don't care if she can sing or not...she will be yelling Nirvana songs.

So it is indeed a "PA" that is used by the singer...I never really full got that. Like this?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... cid=204219


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Post subject: Re: Mustang 3 or 4 as Amp for Vocals?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:24 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
So it is indeed a "PA" that is used by the singer...I never really full got that. Like this? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... cid=204219

I own two of those except version 1 which were more expensive, better build quality and not made in China. Mine can get *really* loud and have great range. I think what you are looking for is a very small mixing board with built in digital effects and a couple of smaller powered speakers.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang 3 or 4 as Amp for Vocals?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:47 pm
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Well she could drum and wasn't bad, she just couldn't drum without the notes in front of her :lol: She was 15 or 16 at the time. We were a high school band.

I know what you mean, we just changed our bassist and our vocalist and I was at a pretty much the same spot as you are :P Except for me it wasn't enough if she was willing to come by once in a week or twice, to rehearse, she had to be a good singer. Luckily we got one in our 2nd try so we didn't even have to look any further :P
But it doesn't matter which songs you'll play, if she doesn't sing in correct pitch it will sound terrible. Unless it's a sort of growling singing, basically singing without a specific "tone" - something I can actually do (but only as back-vocals which does sound quite good, but as main vocals it would sound terrible as I am not a singer and besides we don't play death metal).

The PA can be used by guitarists or bass players as well. You can pluck the cable that goes from your guitar directly in a mixing desk, set the sound there (you usually have treble, middle, bass and reverb knobs - same as on amp and more sophisticated mixing desks have a lot more different parameter knobs on them), then link the mixing desk into speakers which will ultimately produce the sound. However it is usually used by singer (during rehearsals) via a microphone input.
During gigs you get all your amps and drums mic'ed up and the microphones are connected with a mixing desk where the sound guy can set your sound and a mix of all the sounds is then played on the speakers which the audience hears. Your monitors are set completely different so what you hear on your monitors, or even what you hear coming from your amp on a gig, is not the same as what the audience hears.
For instance - a drum set will be mic'ed up with overhead microphones, then a different microphone for bass drum, different ones for tom-toms, etc., and the sound guy will assign different settings for each of those microphones that are linked to the mixing desk. He will add you more bass, more reverb etc., all depend on the venue you're playing at and the sound the drums alone produce. What I hear on stage (as drums are loud enough for me not to need them in monitor), the sound of the actual drums without any EQ from mixing desk, is very different to what the audience hears - as the sound of the drums is modified by the sound guy on the mixing desk. Likewise if I want some of my guitar in monitor - what I'll hear from my amp will be different to what I'll hear coming from the monitor. Of course if you have a distorted sound you won't suddenly be hearing a clean sound, but you can hear more middles or more gain and stuff like that.

Seeing how you won't have a sound guy behind the mixing desk at band rehearsals and you won't need to mic your amps, the singer will be probably the only one using the PA during rehearsals (unless one of your members doesn't have an amp or you have a keyboardist who is also usually set through the PA).

tl; dr: all of you will be using the PA during gigs most likely, but none of you except singer (and keyboardist) will be using it during band rehearsals unless you don't own an amp.

The link you gave is just a speaker.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Phonic-Powe ... 1395799.gc
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Phonic-Powe ... 1469199.gc

These are just a couple of PA package systems. The whole PAs usually include different mics (different ones for micing the amps and for vocals and again different ones for drums), a mixing desk and speakers. And the cables of course :P
The more you pay, the more you will get as it's always the case but for a starting band you're good to go as long as you have as many microphones and cables as the people singing in the band and as many inputs in the mixing desk as there are singers (+ always 2 or 3 in reserve, if one breaks down and if you get a keyboardist and if your amp breaks down) - so basically the cheapest mixing desk with enough inputs will do for starters - and a speaker or two that are loud enough to be heard. More microphones (or better quality ones) are best to be bought separately rather than searching through the PA package systems and after the mixing board criteria also impeding a microphone quantity and quality criteria :)

Also I have not bought anything from guitarcenter so I don't know how trustworthy the site is and the PAs I linked are just examples of cheaper PAs that could be purchased. I have never purchased any PAs nor done any research of the examples above whether their quality is satisfying, rest assured, any PA when you start a band is a good PA :)

Anyway, hope I helped a bit. If I messed something up and gave wrong information I will be glad if someone with more experience and knowledge corrects me :P

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