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Post subject: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:21 am
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Hi All:

Is it better to mic a mustang for a live gig or is it pretty much the same using the fx send?

I have been experimenting with using a Mustang III live, and am running it through the mixer so "sound guy" can give us a good mix. I have read that most of the time guitarists mic their amps instead of plugging right into mixer...but maybe that is because they can't incorporate effects when using non-modeling (e.g., tube) amps. However, the mustang sends all effects through the fx send. So--I would appreciate hearing your opinions on if there is a difference.

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:45 am
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Yes there will be a difference - because the physical speaker will add colouration to the sound beyond the DSP output.

However, the Mustang amp models do have "cab emulation" built into them, which does change the sound quite a lot - and probably has more impact than the physical speaker.

So although the two feeds (mic'ing vs direct) are different, that doesn't mean one is inherently better than the other.

If you want to send a direct feed to the PA from the "fx send" then you need to listen to how that sounds (and don't base it what the amp's own speaker sounds like), choosing whatever cab emulation, and other effects, give the sound you want.

You may find something that sounds good enough, or maybe even better, for your purpose, than mic'ing the amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:54 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Yes there will be a difference - because the physical speaker will add colouration to the sound beyond the DSP output.
.


Thanks so much, Scott. Is it fair to say, too though, that the PA speaker will also add colouration or is that something unique to guitar amps?


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:49 am
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I started out using the XLR out on my MIII V2 and thought they sound descent but the only Issue I had was the amp models volumes didn't balance to how it sound through the speaker. I started to mic my amp and feel that is more true to my stage tone plus the mic will pickup more amp/speaker dynamics.


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:39 am
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Aspiring Musician
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While I agree that going thru the mustang speaker sounds a bit different from the fx-send/XLR (particularly because, as I discovered lately, the mustang speakers change dramatically the frequency response depending on volume) going thru the fx-send has an inherent advantage over micing: as soon as you start playing and you drummer gets it hands heavier (adrenaline maybe) you could, if using fx-send, go and just mount the mustang master volume to hear your guitar back again on stage :) if you are micing your amp and you do this, "sound guy" will most probably not be happy as he will need to readjust the mixer input level for the guitar (as a part-time "sound guy" miself, I can assure you that)

In other words, if you can live with the mic vs fx-send sound difference (do the test) I would strongly recommend going the fx-send way

Additionally, when micing an amp, actually the mic itself colors the sound (that's why you get all those virtual mic combinations when using software like amplitube) so in order for the fx send to sound similar to a mic, you are going to need to correct the mixer input tone stack to mimic the mic response (and placement in fron of the speaker) as much as possible. look for the mic datasheet for extra details.


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:29 am
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Quote:
Is it fair to say, too though, that the PA speaker will also add colouration or is that something unique to guitar amps?

In theory, a PA speaker should be neutral, because it is (or is supposed to be) a "FRFR" system (full range, flat frequency response). In reality, all speakers have at least a slight effect on the sound.

Guitar amp speakers are not "FRFR" - they are deliberately biased around the frequency range of a guitar. Many other topics in this forum discuss this, its technicalities and implications, so I won't go into that again here. So a guitar amp speaker affects the sound more than a PA speaker.

As I mentioned above, the Mustang amps have several "cab emulations" built-in to them, to re-create the sound of different types of guitar amp speaker and cabinet. This enables you to get a guitar-amp-like sound from a PA speaker.

But there is no right or best answer for this. As I and others have suggested, you really need to try it and experiment with different options to see what sounds right for you.

I really like the suggestion above to use the Mustang as a stage monitor with a direct (eg via fx-send, or XLR-out on the newer amps) feed to the PA. That way you can more easily control the volume of each separately.


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:13 pm
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I've experimented with this quite a bit and in the end I prefer direct to board so I can use the amp on stage for my monitor allowing me to turn up however much I need. To me the different speaker cabinet sims make a greater difference from the xlr out than they do from the speaker. Once my patches are where I want them I'll turn the amp volume off while running the xlr to my PC interface and either use headphones or listen through my monitors. If something doesn't sound good to me direct I'll change speaker sims until I have something I like. At a gig I'll walk out front, wireless, with the amp volume off listening only the the PA. If it's too bright, dull etc I change speaker sims until I get what I want from the PA. Then tweak at the board to finish it off. If you learn what the different speak sims sound like it may help you to tweak your direct sound.

I've only used the Mustang once at a gig so far where I didn't want to drag 100 lbs worth of amp and speakers down a long boat dock at a steep angle. This Saturday I'll use it again at a restaurant/club gig where we really have to watch our volume. For every different room I'm in I'll listen to my direct sound and change speaker sims if necessary. Now that I've settled on a couple of different speaker sims I hope now I only have to tweak at the board. I'll see if that works this weekend.


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:02 pm
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MJ Slaughter wrote:
I've experimented with this quite a bit and in the end I prefer direct to board so I can use the amp on stage for my monitor allowing me to turn up however much I need. To me the different speaker cabinet sims make a greater difference from the xlr out than they do from the speaker. Once my patches are where I want them I'll turn the amp volume off while running the xlr to my PC interface and either use headphones or listen through my monitors. If something doesn't sound good to me direct I'll change speaker sims until I have something I like. At a gig I'll walk out front, wireless, with the amp volume off listening only the the PA. If it's too bright, dull etc I change speaker sims until I get what I want from the PA. Then tweak at the board to finish it off. If you learn what the different speak sims sound like it may help you to tweak your direct sound.

I've only used the Mustang once at a gig so far where I didn't want to drag 100 lbs worth of amp and speakers down a long boat dock at a steep angle. This Saturday I'll use it again at a restaurant/club gig where we really have to watch our volume. For every different room I'm in I'll listen to my direct sound and change speaker sims if necessary. Now that I've settled on a couple of different speaker sims I hope now I only have to tweak at the board. I'll see if that works this weekend.



Hi MJ,

I went thru the same path (from mammoth amp to mustang), then when I saw the M Floor at 170 $ I became even lazier :)
Now I carry around just the Floor, which includes, on top of what the mustang can do in terms of cabinets, output eq voicing that you can adjust in seconds, without modifuing your presets.

As the Floor has stereo output (both XLR and unbalanced) you can have different output voicings per channel. In my case I use "PA system + bass" going to the mixer and "combo amp" going to the stage monitor in front of me. then for each of the 9 available voicings, you can fine tune bass and treble also for each channel.

now actually my guitar is the heaviest part of my rig :)


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Post subject: Re: Mic'ing Mustang or Using FX Send
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:22 pm
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Hi All,

We are happy to assist. This is a great thread, and we are happy to hear that you guys are sharing your different ideas of what works best for your application. The most important thing to remember is to figure out what sounds best to you. It really doesn't matter if you choose to mic the cabinet, tap the signal from the FX send or use the balanced XLR Stereo out, either option is available with the Fender® Mustang™ Amplifiers and it mainly comes down to personal preference.

Have fun and please let us know if we can assist further.

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(800) 856-9801


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