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Post subject: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:56 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Hi people,

Historically I always used either, ultra-clean patches or overdriven patches, this weekend I decided to chase the "real" tube tone: the saturated tone, AKA creamy, compressed, warm and many other names.

I have tried pretty much all the models, with no effects, just amp controls, to see which models are more easily saturated and which go into overdrive more naturally. This is the ranking I came up with:

1 - Twin 65: almost impossible to break-up, and actually only partially warms up even at max gain. Not very useful to me except as a clean amp, for jazz and the like.
2 - Twin 57: The best! put gain at max and get pure tone tube with pretty much any pickup. Difficult but not impossible to overdrive, so avoid guitar volume at max, particularly on hum buckers. Works quite well with simple-compressor at minimum too.
3 - Princeton: crank up the gain, but you are going to need to fiddle with the guitar volume as breakup will happen at high guitar volume levels. A bit more trebly than the Twin57 and more noisy. A noise gate at minimum may be required.
4 - deluxe 65: warm tones are possible, but presets will need to be adjusted going from one guitar/pickup to the next
5 - Deluxe 57: more of a blues/rock kind of amp, easily overdriven at high gain, solo presets would benefit more from this amp
6 - Champ, not so easy to come up with a purely warm tone. This thing goes into saturation fast.

For the non-fender models, I think is more difficult to get consistent warm tones. Maybe the British60 can be extensively tweaked to do so, but it sounds too trebly IMO for this particular use.

As a general rule, most of the goodness of fender models come into play when cranking up model gain.

As an example, this is the best tone I was able to come with after my experimentation, based on Twin 57:

MegaCreamy Tweed
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... eamy-tweed

As I'm new to this kind of tone your comments/corrections are welcomed.


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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:56 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:43 pm
Posts: 532
Location: Here In Oregon
Great post jedi2b!!!

Unfortunately, I have a Mustang Floor and a Mustang 2 v.1 and no 57 Twin. Dang!

The 65 Twin has been my favorite amp model so far and I use a distortion overdrive pedal in front of it when needed. Sure wish I had the 57 Twin though. :(

Anyway, your posts are always the bomb in a good way. Thanks :)

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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:32 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Hey HIO,

do not despair, I have created similar presets with the deluxe 65 and princeton that should work fine on your amp, I like the Princeton preset more, but is a bit noisy. Give it a try. I added disabled delay and tremolo, as I use them in some songs.

depending on your guitar you will need to roll off the treble/tone on the guitar and adjust the guitar volume to avoid breakup (if your pickups are too hot)

MegaCreamy Deluxe
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... amy-deluxe

MegaCreamy Prince
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... amy-prince

The closest I got to a saturated tone on the Twin 65 is this preset:

Burnin' Twin
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... urnin-twin


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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:44 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:03 am
Posts: 575
Location: In the Land of "Stratocaster"
Have you scoped the Bassman model with gain saturation yet?
Have found the Bassman gets nice and gritty when you pump the gain. Very ZZ Top-ish type of grit tone. Cool for Blues Rock & heavy Electric Blues etc...
The Marshalls respond nicely as well (Plexi & JCM). Very "authentic" in both sound and response.

The Mustangs really do perform like Tube Amps. It's what attracted me to them and that's how I relate to them. Have had outstanding results using my Mustang III. The gain does saturate most of the models in good old fashioned Tube Amp fashion.

Interested in checking out your presets. Thanks for sharing them.

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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:44 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Hi strat-slinger,

I totally forgot about the bassman on my list, shame on me :)
The issue I have with the bassman, when looking for saturated/compressed tones, is that I can easily get beautiful clean tones and also superb breakup/overdriven tones, but I'm unable to get consistent saturated/warm/compressed tones.
If you have any recipe (AKA preset) that can do it, I would love to try it out :)


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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:21 pm
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:03 am
Posts: 575
Location: In the Land of "Stratocaster"
Agree that the BassMan gets very good breakup etc... but for that sustained, compressed saturation... Hmmmmm.
I'm experimenting with the Tube Bias settings on the 2nd menu of the amp's parameters... Will keep posted. Believe it can be done ;)

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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:48 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: In the Land of "Stratocaster"
O.K. Here's a decently "saturated" '59 Bassman:
Basic Amp Settings:
* Gain: 10 (yes, dime it!)
* Treble: 8.9
* Mid: 7.1
* Bass: 6.1
* Reverb Level: 3.1

Advanced Amp Settings:
* Tubes: Sag
* Bias: -21% (the 3rd degree of -21% 8) ) Under Biased = HOT :wink:
* Noise Gate: Mid
* Cabinet: Bassman
* Presence: 8.8
* Blend: 0%

Effects:
* Simple Comp: Max
* Reverb: '65 Spring
--> Reverb Settings:
* Level: 3.1 (Basic Amp setting has this covered but also available in effects parameters)
* Decay: 5.9
* Dwell: 3.0
* Diff: 4.4
* Tone 5.5

I used my '62 AVRI Strat while refining this saturation setting for the '59 Bassman.
Has Texas Special style Hand Wound Reed James single coils in it. All 5 positions scream out pure happiness with these settings.
Depending on your guitar's pickups, you may need to tweak settings a little to get this as happy as I've got it sounding on mine but, you're in the ball park with these settings.
Let me know what you all think.
Thanks and Keep Rockin'!

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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:09 pm
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Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Hey strat-slinger,
very nice tone! I think you understand the bassman innards better than I do :)

In my particular case, I think my pickups are too hot for the preset in the form you presented (I have a MiM strat with texas specials) and the bassman will go into increasing overdrive if I go beyond guitar volume = 3, below that it sounds great, pure compresion.

So I introduced a small change on the PRE effects, I changed the reverb for the 63 spring and put it between the compressor and the amp, which I found that in many presets it normalizes/limits the signal really well, and keeps the amp emulation out of overdrive longer.

here's your amp settings plus the compressor+reverb settings I introduced, in case you want to give it a try:
https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/presets ... bassman-v2

thanks again for the detalied advice!


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Post subject: Re: How to: saturated vs overdriven tone
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:16 am
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:18 am
Posts: 184
I finally find some time to test your preset, at least thoose that work with the v1.

I guess i understand what you where trying to get with the preses, and i think is well sorted out.

The one i like better is the "price", having some more treble.

My question is: eq setting are part of the cream-process or can be changed without loosing all the magic?

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You can find all my Mustang tips here:
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An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
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USB Footswitch Opensource Project:

https://github.com/mordor74/mustang-raider


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