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Post subject: Volume Pedal : what is its chain position?
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:01 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
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Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
as said in another post , a few days ago i received EXP-1 pedal for the Mustang 3 V.2.. i'm trying all the options available to know it better but i don't have yet understand what parameter is changed by Volume Pedal: there is written that it controls the "master volume" on preset but can't be the physical Master Volume knob of course , and looking at the display it seems it doesn't change the Volume preset parameter ..
and what is the position of Volume Pedal in the chain?

a new question:
i just discovered that you can save a complete setting in independent way for each preset just for Expression Pedal mode.
I thought it was possible to save preset (local) settings also for Volume Pedal mode but really it has global settings that affect all presets.
I'd like to understand the logic behind this criterion when it was created the firmware. Why not include the function of local (individual presets) settings also with regard to the minimum and maximum values ​​of the volume pedal ? would be much more flexible and powerful the use that you could do with this pedal.
thanks
Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Volume Pedal : what is its chain position?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:09 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
nobody has any idea where it is located the volume pedal in the chain?

Fender?

thanks
Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Volume Pedal : what is its chain position?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:55 am
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Quote:
nobody has any idea where it is located the volume pedal in the chain?

Originally, the "volume" mode of the pedal was at the very end of the signal chain, after all amp modelling and effects. So it would also affect delay/reverb tails etc. Many people complained about this (emotive topics in this forum about this time last year).

So in firmware 1.3 (M-Floor) and 1.10 (Mustang amps), Fender changed this. The pedal's "volume" mode is now after the amp model but before all post- effects. This solved many people's concerns but still doesn't address everything.

Ideally, the volume pedal should be movable to whatever point in the signal chain you want it. This doesn't seem possible, perhaps because, as you've observed, the "volume" mode of the pedal doesn't actually control any of the standard volume settings you can see on the amp or in FUSE. It seems to be an extra hidden volume control solely for the pedal.

However, a workaround to allow the volume pedal to be put wherever you want it in the signal chain, is instead to put the pedal in "expression" mode and assign it to an explicit level or volume control on the amp model or one of the effects in the signal chain. This is particularly useful if you want the volume control before the amp model: assign the pedal to the "level" of a pre- effect. If you don't want a pre- effect for anything else, just pick one and adjust its settings to get a neutral sound.


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Post subject: Re: Volume Pedal : what is its chain position?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:25 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
thanks! very good suggestions.
all this research is mainly derived from the need (and an attempt) to balance, as already said in another topic, the level of direct and the "wet" (processed signal), in a post amp effect ..
as we know with certain effect modulation signal usually tends to have a lower volume of output.. (it could be the opposite situation though if it is set to generate high feedback or resonance) but is not an accettable solution in my opinion to mitigate this, to lower the Level parameter of the effect to achieve a sound perceived stronger ..
for example if you lower the level of Vibratone (suppose the Rotary in "Europa" by Santana) around 50/60%, the perceived level will raise but the perceived effect will be considerably weakened if not barely perceptible compared to what it should sound in reality.

Dimitri

edit: i just received answer from Fender TSL : <<any effect that removes/filters signal will reduce the perceived volume when placed in the post position. There is a finite amount of digital headroom, so simply adding a boost isn't always an option. We will look into the Vibratone effect, but we can't make any promises as to if we would make a change to the existing firmware. >>

despite this limitation of headroom, I think it would be really a good idea to include a level control/mix level for the effects of modulation that allows also a boost of the signal if necessary .. clearly exaggerating you can get clipping but I think it is up to the good sense of the musicians to dose it sparingly until you get a good result: It would be enough regain the amount of level loose in modulation. (or decrease it if it has become higher)

<<Regarding FX position and presets, the behavior you are seeing is expected. Each effect has default settings which *includes* the position in the chain. Enabling changing of effect position on the Fender® MustangT amplifier would be useful to some, but this feature among others were left out to simplify the user interface. We would advise you turn to the Fender® FuseT Software for deep editing; the amp interface is designed to be simplistic.>>

and.. about this i'm sure that most of us (not just some of us) would appreciate the feature to change the position of effects in the chain directly on Mustang (models with display) without the need to connect to a pc and Fuse. For example it could be included as another voice in Utility menu or simply in the current window showing the effects chain ..


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