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Post subject: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:14 pm
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Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:00 pm
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I think the reverbs, delays and choruses are all stereo when you're listening via USB or the headphone output. Otherwise, unless you have an MIV, MV or an M Floor connected in stereo, the Mini, MI, MII and MIII amps are mono when you're listening to their built in speakers.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:19 am
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Hi joebeets,

We will be happy to assist. It seems that you have been given some great advice from Orcatraz, thank Orcatraz:) Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:46 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
I think the reverbs, delays and choruses are all stereo when you're listening via USB or the headphone output. Otherwise, unless you have an MIV, MV or an M Floor connected in stereo, the Mini, MI, MII and MIII amps are mono when you're listening to their built in speakers.

O.


I've listened to both the headphone out AND stereo XLR outs and the reverb seems mono to me (even when it's post amp and FX). The delay is stereo but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't, any confirmation would be great.


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:15 am
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I'm not sure what you refer to when you talk about stereo reverb. If you talk about having one echo per channel (ping pong stereo delay style) I do not think you could heard the difference between mono and stereo reverb. This is from wikipedia deinition of reverberation:

In comparison to a distinct echo that is 50 to 100 ms after the initial sound, reverberation is many thousands of echoes that arrive in very quick succession (.01 – 1 ms between echoes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverberation

I do not think any living creature can differentiate among 1 msec echoes, much less over which channel they come from.


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:17 am
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joebeets wrote:
The delay is stereo but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't, any confirmation would be great.

Hi joebeets, you already have confirmation straight from Fender (forum user Fender TSL = Fender staff):

Orcatraz wrote:
I think the reverbs, delays and choruses are all stereo when you're listening via USB or the headphone output. Otherwise, unless you have an MIV, MV or an M Floor connected in stereo, the Mini, MI, MII and MIII amps are mono when you're listening to their built in speakers.

Fender TSL wrote:
Hi joebeets,

We will be happy to assist. It seems that you have been given some great advice from Orcatraz, thank Orcatraz:) Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:53 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
I'm not sure what you refer to when you talk about stereo reverb. If you talk about having one echo per channel (ping pong stereo delay style) I do not think you could heard the difference between mono and stereo reverb. This is from wikipedia deinition of reverberation:

In comparison to a distinct echo that is 50 to 100 ms after the initial sound, reverberation is many thousands of echoes that arrive in very quick succession (.01 – 1 ms between echoes)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverberation

I do not think any living creature can differentiate among 1 msec echoes, much less over which channel they come from.


Actually, there's one method that might allow you to be able to tell. If your DAW has a "Sum To Mono" feature, and I believe most are capable of this, if you record a stereo guitar track via USB (or the headphone out) that has the Mustang's reverb as the only effect and sum that stereo track to mono, you should hear a difference. The sound stage will get extremely narrow.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:48 am
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strings10927 wrote:
joebeets wrote:
The delay is stereo but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't, any confirmation would be great.

Hi joebeets, you already have confirmation straight from Fender (forum user Fender TSL = Fender staff):

Orcatraz wrote:
I think the reverbs, delays and choruses are all stereo when you're listening via USB or the headphone output. Otherwise, unless you have an MIV, MV or an M Floor connected in stereo, the Mini, MI, MII and MIII amps are mono when you're listening to their built in speakers.

Fender TSL wrote:
Hi joebeets,

We will be happy to assist. It seems that you have been given some great advice from Orcatraz, thank Orcatraz:) Please let us know if we can assist further.


Thanks, but I work in a professional studio and I'm it's very easy and obvious if a reverb is stereo but the Mustang III is definately not. I'm not sure why, but it's not (the delays are though, go figure).


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:22 am
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joebeets wrote:
Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?

joebeets wrote:
....it's very easy and obvious if a reverb is stereo but the Mustang III is definately not.

OK... then

1. Why did you ask the question here if you're not going to trust the answers you're given?

2. Why did you ask the question here if you feel you already know the answer?

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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 am
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joebeets wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
joebeets wrote:
The delay is stereo but I'm pretty sure the reverb isn't, any confirmation would be great.

Hi joebeets, you already have confirmation straight from Fender (forum user Fender TSL = Fender staff):

Orcatraz wrote:
I think the reverbs, delays and choruses are all stereo when you're listening via USB or the headphone output. Otherwise, unless you have an MIV, MV or an M Floor connected in stereo, the Mini, MI, MII and MIII amps are mono when you're listening to their built in speakers.

Fender TSL wrote:
Hi joebeets,

We will be happy to assist. It seems that you have been given some great advice from Orcatraz, thank Orcatraz:) Please let us know if we can assist further.


Thanks, but I work in a professional studio and I'm it's very easy and obvious if a reverb is stereo but the Mustang III is definately not. I'm not sure why, but it's not (the delays are though, go figure).


So, when you sum your monitoring system to mono, there's no difference in the soundstage? I have a hard time believing that. It may not be the most detailed nor the truest or widest of stereo signals but it's really no skin off Fender's nose to make it "stereo" nonetheless. I also think that it depends on which reverb effect is being used. For example, the spring reverb may well be mono. That makes sense but the Hall, Room and plate reverbs in mono just doesn't make any sense given that stereo reverb algorithms are a dime a dozen these days. They may not always be particularly smooth or detailed but they're pretty easy to come by.

Now,admittedly, I wish I still had a Mustang so I can actually check this out. Still a mono reverb just doesn't make any sense - practically or economically. In fact they'd probably have to spend more trying to find or design a reverb algorithm that's just mono. That's money down the drain - it would never get past Fender's corporate accountants.

O


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:05 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
joebeets wrote:
Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?

joebeets wrote:
....it's very easy and obvious if a reverb is stereo but the Mustang III is definately not.

OK... then

1. Why did you ask the question here if you're not going to trust the answers you're given?

2. Why did you ask the question here if you feel you already know the answer?


1. It's got nothing to do with trust, I just want to know if my unit (mustang III V2) is faulty or if ALL Mustang V2s have mono reverb.

2. I'd just like to have a definitive answer from Fender (although I think I know the answer).

Orcatraz:
I'm with you and find it hard to believe that the reverb is mono (yes, I did a sum to mono and it sounded the same as stereo).


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:17 pm
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I did a quick test with audacity (capturing through USB) and I can confirm that reverbs are not stereo, in the sense that both channels reproduce exactly the same signal.

Here's a sample of both channels with arena reverb with all reverb settings set to max

Image

Here's a sample of both channels with 65 Spring reverb with all reverb settings set to max

Image

Actually I never saw two signals so identical in audacity before LOL.

But still I do not see how a "stereo reverb" could sound different from a reverb, echoes are so close together that any sense of spatial separation seems impossible.

Sorry, time to go back to my scale pratice :)


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:37 pm
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joebeets wrote:
Orcatraz:
I'm with you and find it hard to believe that the reverb is mono (yes, I did a sum to mono and it sounded the same as stereo).


Well... that graph leaves almost no doubt about it now. You should note though, that the 65 spring reverb should absolutely be mono but not the Arena verb. Do you have the capability to invert the phase of one of the channels? I'm almost sure you can do that in Audacity. If you can, please do that and then play the track again. If you hear a significant drop in level or worse, no sound at all, it'll pretty much prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the reverb is in fact, mono.

However, I do think that there's a good chance that it might be fixable via firmware. If the left and right channels on the reverb are programmed with identical settings then it stands to reason that you'd get a mono sound. One side, either left or right, has to be slightly different from the other for the listener to perceive the stereo effect. I think Fender can do this. If they make one side more diffuse, the other have more pre-delay, more damping on one side than the other etc., they can create a more convincing stereo reverb. Of course, convolution and other more high end reverbs do far more than this but hey, we're talking about a guitar amp here.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:39 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
joebeets wrote:
Orcatraz:
I'm with you and find it hard to believe that the reverb is mono (yes, I did a sum to mono and it sounded the same as stereo).

I think Fender can do this.
O.


I hope so. Pretty well every other modeller I can think of has stereo reverb (with the option of making it mono i.e. putting it before the amp).
Moderator?


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Post subject: Re: Does the Mustang III V2 have stereo reverb?
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:56 pm
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joebeets wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
joebeets wrote:
Orcatraz:
I'm with you and find it hard to believe that the reverb is mono (yes, I did a sum to mono and it sounded the same as stereo).

I think Fender can do this.
O.


I hope so. Pretty well every other modeller I can think of has stereo reverb (with the option of making it mono i.e. putting it before the amp).
Moderator?


Well, one thing to remember is that there are far better reverbs available in your DAW. I always record a dry amp sound.

O.


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