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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:00 pm
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captainc wrote:
I may be mistaken but HiWatts supposedly have a reputation of being paint peeling loud.


I had to chuckle at that. Have you ever played through a Twin??? A DR103 has nothing on a good Twin.

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1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:03 pm
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frondizi wrote:
Hi,
so are you saying that Volume (#1) is simply a level control of the Preset? A preset includes not just amp model (pre + power amp + cab) but also the pre and post amp effects in the chain.

I think it is more logical to think that in that position, it is the control of output level or volume just of the Preamp section.. and everything else has nothing to do (post-amp effects primarily).

In my Roland pedalboard for example,...


I think you are correct, but you are making it way more complicated than it really is. The preset volume (#1) simply controls the volume of that preset relative to the other presets. If you just think of it like that, you will make your life a lot simpler.

_________________
1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
Marshall JTM 60


Last edited by thompal on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:38 pm
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Hi Fender,

perhaps would be a good idea if you post a topic (always on top of the first page, a locked topic) in which you explain and summarize the real function of Volume knob (real and virtual) on Mustang amps.. and so the difference between Volume, Master Volume (in the models which are equipped with) and Master and just to completeness also Gain.
The info in the post of FFXIhealer are very good and could be used on my opinion in your topic.

we have see that i and several other users for various reasons didn't realize that Volume is the general Level of Preset and can balance also the level generated by effects...
it is probable that other people will make the same mistake and continue to ask the same questions in the forum, because in the user guide(quick start and advanced) it is not explained.

i don't know the case of other users , but i was misled to thinking that Volume was a level regulator of a stage in the amp models.. as already said, the good knolewdge of Roland products lead me to believe a wrong thing.

As a consequence i thought that i couldn't balance in an effective way lead sounds, clean sounds, mp3 band track sound.. so i suggested a feature update that already was there..

the main problem was the physical limitation to lower the Master knob of the Mustang (3 V1 in the past, and at today 3 V2) under a certain value having the preset levels very high (without knowing it).. so the sensitivity of that control was significantly increased.
it was difficult to play for example in background in the night (without headphones) because the preset levels at high settings values did raise the volume abruptly even with small rotations of the Master and i had to stay in the range between 1 and 2 (max, but usually enough high).. and it is normal because the level in the chain to manage before power amp was usually very high in most presets..

Now i know how to use Volume parameter , the situation is totally improved as regards the level balancing of the various presets .. and it seemed strange that it was not possible to do it.

I'm saying maybe obvious things but for those who have never had experience with a real tube amp, but only with digital processors, can be important to understand how they work broadly the various volume controls and gain and therefore that's the way they must use the controls on the Mustang models.

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:21 am
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thompal wrote:
captainc wrote:
I may be mistaken but HiWatts supposedly have a reputation of being paint peeling loud.


I had to chuckle at that. Have you ever played through a Twin??? A DR103 has nothing on a good Twin.


Yeah I've played through a Twin but what I have and have not plugged into is irrelavent to the extreme difference in what I need to have my preset level set to between two clean presets to get somewhat of a nearly close ballpark volume level
:roll:

The preset volume concept is not difficult to grasp. Call me lazy, but I just think mustang life would be a lot simpler if there wasn't a need to grab for the Master Volume on the amp after changing a patch because you were out of headroom on the "preset volume" on the other preset. Perhaps what I need to do is re-gain my HiWatt against the 65 Twin since those are my two favorite models right now.

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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:23 am
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Hi,
so you Thompal are saying that a real Hi-watt head (and cab) is less powerful than a Twin combo? in the list of amp on Mustang the Twin comes a little before of Hiwatt ... one reason could be because is cleaner but i supposed it is also less powerful: as perceived power I mean, not wattage ...

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Gain Staging between different amp models
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:26 am
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frondizi wrote:
Hi,
so you Thompal are saying that a real Hi-watt head (and cab) is less powerful than a Twin combo? in the list of amp on Mustang the Twin comes a little before of Hiwatt ... one reason could be because is cleaner but i supposed it is also less powerful: as perceived power I mean, not wattage ...

Dimitri


Well, the difference is probably because a Twin is an open back 2x12, while a Hiwatt is typically played through 2 4x12 cabinets.

Of course, then there's the UL Twins (ugh), which were even louder.

_________________
1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
Marshall JTM 60


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Profile
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