It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:37 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:19 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
Fondizi

Gilmour is my all time favorite so I too will be chasing his tone to a large extent on the mustang. One thing I noticed from a lot of Fuse downloads is that there are a lot of presets that have the gain and the master volume (not preset volume) pegged. I’m no expert but I’m not surprised people are hearing artifacts. Could it be the Gain staging? Perhaps lowering the MV and raising the preset volume might help a bit. My question would be to you or any other folks with more experience than me is what is typical for Gain and volume level? What’s a good starting point for master volume?

As for Gilmour sounds, I’ve gotten a clean and dirty 'Shine On' tone i'm happy with but am struggling a bit with say the Fuzzed Solo on 'Time'. Without the ability to at the very least add a booster after the fuzz, not necessarily to add gain but to shape the tone, I think I may be doing a bit of dragon chasing which is why I tested out the Rat. I’m going to test out a Tonebender fuzz/ Ranger booster (Rangemaster?) with the Time tone next and will let you know how that goes. I’ll try this out on the HiWatt and the 65 Twin. Obviously I’m not expecting the mustang to match his rig but if I can get a passable tone that I enjoy, I’m happy. What Amp model are you using for your Gilmour tones?

Cheers.

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:47 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
of course for Gimour tone we have to use HiWatt stack or British Watts models in Mustang.. as you know, Gilmour early powerful sound is based on clean chanel of that amp (that is a kind of improved Marshall) and a Fuzz Face Arbiter with the gain all the way up or very high and the level around 7..
incredible gain and sustain even though the chanel of amp is clean. But the digital model can't stand that amount of gain without show at least one of two phenomenon .. expecially when you put guitar volume at 10.
then Gilmour used the Big Muff, years after.. Pigs can fly preset is a good example of a starting point to get other saturated Gilmour sounds.. but partially you can hear additional modulations (of course with delay and modulation sections switched off) also in that preset..

from our test (mine , Jedi2b and some other member) we can say that unwanted modulations occours if you
1) use some active pickups which has very high output level .. you don't need to add a stompbox od/fuzz to get unwanted modulations from an amp models set (i guess) at mid to high gain settings..
2) if you try to crank most of low to mid gain amp models with a fuzz like the Fuzz model (included also in version 1) and higher fuzz gain settings.. but also with other distorsion stomp models.. the lower is the gain that stompbox can produce, the lower is the phenomenon of course... a booster or a Tubescreamer model set to low gain , do not affect the tone as a black box/pro co Rat or Big Muff..
Also a Jimi Hendrix setting would require a sligh dirty Marshall chanel with high gain setting (probably not all the knobs at 10 as legend has it) and the fuzz face set all the way up.

then there are a lot o middle ways ... when you saturate a low to mid gain amp model in natural way with its gain at 10 (without stompbox) ,expecially using humbuckers pickups .. you can get easily a phaser-like modulation that can resemble the old and "dear" Fizz in the clean tones of V.1. They said that also Fender Tweeds real tube amps show the same behaviour (phaser like or a kind of sitar/buzzing sound caused by dancing harmonics that appear and disappear) more or less if you crank them all the way up.
But i'm wondering.. and what about the very slow tremolo like phenomenon at higher input level ? and generally what about a Marshall '70 model or HI-WATT ? also them have to show the same behaviour in real tube amps? and a Vox? or instead when cranked up they usally show typical strong compression and sustain?
i have to specify that you can become aware of these phenomena if you are playing melodic , sustained solos parts.. for example Santana, Gilmour (expecially early Pink Floyd songs) , Clapton ...
if you play quick notes /scales or rhytmic parts it is easy do not notice that phenomena .. they have no condictions and enough time to appear because usually one of these 2 phenomena occurs at note decaying..
if you need long sustain notes you probably will know that kind of phenomena unless you use directly an high-gain model without add any od/distorsions/fuzz ..
but not all of us want to use just high-gain amp to strongly reduce side effects.. you can get from those models some kind of tones you would get cranking up a vintale low/mid gain amp model with a stomp , you know.. the behaviour is not the same.

if all of that depends on a basic issue of hard clipping in preamp model section at higher input level , it could be fixed or reduced by a firmware update in a future...

maybe if several of us interested in this improvement will report the matter in the near future to Fender, there may be more chance of getting it.

let me know what you hear from your test with real pedals... it is even more important.
Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:06 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
Sounds to me like a good case for a 'Gilmour Tone on a Mustang' thread... i know i'd be there. :lol:

Pigs Fly is decent... i'll say again (broken record) needs a booster after that muff as i think any post Animals tone we'd be chasing would. I started playing with the HiWatt model with the Marshall cab ... no WEM cab sims so went with the Marshall. A mix knob on the Vibratone could be cool too... yup... Gilmour on a Mustang thread for geeks like me.

Also, i don't think you have to use only the HiWatt. He also used Twins, Bassmans, Showmans in the studio as well so might try the Twin and see how you fare at least for the Floyd stuff.

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:31 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
captainc wrote:
Sounds to me like a good case for a 'Gilmour Tone on a Mustang' thread... i know i'd be there. :lol:


Yes! haa haa :lol: ... is a case for the inspector Frondizi (the mustache i have them) .. << mhhh there is something fishy here ... the clues are leading me a single guilty .. Fender, you're under arrest! ..........
..... the price to pay for security shall be: release the firmware update as soon as possible >>

Jokes aside...
it seems that you also are a good fan of Gilmour and company ..
Gilmour used even one of my favourite: Mesa Boogie mark series (i'm not sure if mark 2c or there was already mark 3 in the market) .. if i am not wrong, it should be around The Wall studio and tour times..
The Fender Twin as said , is able to stand better to that strange modulations ..
The Bassman model instead and other tweeds it is easily affected by those problems..

but Gilmour is not the only reference for tones and guitar style to me... Carlos Santana is important the same and is the other main reference ... and also to do those sustained tones often you would need a mesa boogie mark (you find all chanels of it on Amplitube 3...) and /or Dumble amp + mesa boogie cab .. but Dumble it is too rare and all in all you don't need to be so accurate to get that sound i think .. he used also some Fender clean chanels in the early years..
then there is Eric Clapton... Clapton uses surely Tweeds small amps.. and used vintage Marshall at the times with Cream .. then Fender Twins mainly.. and again .. fuzz.. (the fuzz was omnipresent :-) )

by the way.. the only processor that could include even a Dumble model (i'm not sure) and much more than a hundred of amps, cabs, stomps and effects which seem to sound so naturally than many other effects on the market... is the Axe Fx 2 of Fractal Audio (it is from California like Fender) ..and it is so accurate and closest to be perfect compared to real things but unfortunately is so expensive .. has only one drawback .. the price .. it is in a range of price i would say of a reissue Fender amp tube.

About the fuzz solo on "Time" ... when i had Mustang 3 V.1 (sold to buy the new V.2) i dowloaded a community preset from Fender Fuse... it should be this:
https://fuse.fender.com/mustangv2/presets/anthony-vargas-pink-floyd-time-solo
was based on a Vox model (british '60) + Fuzz (the standard fuzz; because the Big Muff comes with new V.2) and flanger + delay.. the distortion is good but you have to lower the effects on my opinion particularly flanger deep and level.. too effected compared to original track..
also Echoes presets are very good but we have to create other with the new HiWatt model.. is more accurate. There are several other presets shared about Pink Floyd songs.. you could test it ..

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:10 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 4099
Location: New York
frondizi wrote:
by the way.. the only processor that could include even a Dumble model (i'm not sure) and much more than a hundred of amps, cabs, stomps and effects which seem to sound so naturally than many other effects on the market... is the Axe Fx 2 of Fractal Audio (it is from California like Fender) ..and it is so accurate and closest to be perfect compared to real things but unfortunately is so expensive .. has only one drawback .. the price .. it is in a range of price i would say of a reissue Fender amp tube.


+1 for Axe Fx, I've heard some absolutely amazing demos.

_________________
Please subscribe to my Image Channel!
https://www.youtube.com/user/b7567


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:44 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Yes , sooner or later (perhaps) i'll buy it ...
but you need also a good powered cab with flat response (as the discontinued Atomic series ) and its controller pedalboard if you need to change/control parameters in real time for live uses..
a truly nice shopping cart in total.. 8)

at the moment I have to settle for having the desktop wallpaper downloaded on fractal audio web site, listen demos and read owner's manual, brochures or other fascinating documentation about it .. :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:21 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
Got my hands on a Sola Sound Tone-Bender so going to play around with that hopefully tonight.

I played around with my GT6 straight in and turned off the amp sims (On the GT6). I must say... I think i might keep it. Sounded pretty good using both together. I can definately take advantage of some added control and the expression pedal. I had set up a Univibe and a Phase Shifter on another patch and use the expression to control the speed. That was kinda cool. At least until i get a handful of pedals i may as well keep the GT for extra options on OD/Fuzz and whatever else. Those c. 2003 COSM chips are sounding really warm and vintage :lol:

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:52 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
wow ! a real Tone Bender? let me know how it sounds...

regarding Boss/Roland products at today i have a Roland GR 55 guitar synth but as you know it have some features as in your Boss GT6 .. it is also effect processor and instrument/amp/cab/stomp modeller...
but the effect chain you can use is shorter than GT series .. some days ago i used for it the Mustang looper path.. to use it just as power amp.. sounds very good.. but the amp + cab models and also stomps are not so accurate and enjoyable as those in Fender Mustang. It seems that Roland effects /simulations sound a little hazy.. there is not enough transparency..
i like some instruments models (electric/acoustic guitars) and of course all the synths PCM sections.. There are many parameters with which to experiment and shape the samples available ..
by the way.. Vangelis is the best.

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:29 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:55 am
Posts: 548
Vox Valvetronix VT+ series amps and Tonelab have Dumble models. Have been able to get great singing tones from my original ToneLab and AD60VTX (no longer available new).


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:38 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
do you think those emulators are more good than Fender Mustang?

by a variety of feedback, it seems that Mustang series is the most pleasant and accurate (apart from the digital aliasing) ..
of course the undisputed specialist of digital is the Axe Fx 2 (or precedent versions) although in a completely different price range .. but now we have said again and again :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:13 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:25 am
Posts: 107
I'm actually using a DigiTech RP1000 with my Mustang III v2, using the 4-cable method (which the RP1000 correctly aplies/supports). When I so desire, the pre-effects on the RP are sent to the M-iii's input and the post efx are applied to effects return (i.e., I can use the M-iii's models with the RP's effects, including the distortion units). I have only worked with the combination on one gig but:

(1) Really quick setup and adjustment

(2) So good and flexible, with sooooo many possibilities, your eyes tear up.

(3) When using the M-iii in power cab mode for the modeling pedal (i.e., into the EFX Return), it is louder, more easily controllable, and "warmer" than a Tech21 PE60 power engine. PLENTY of available volume and good projection.

(4) IMPORTANT: With the 4-cable method, set the EFX loop for "Looper" via the M-iii Utility menu. If you set it for "Normal", overdrives/distortions and wahs will saturate and modulate.

The Mustang-III is a really interesting alternative to a Tech21 PE60: It's the same retail price, only one pound heavier, and virtually the same size (maybe 1/8-to-1/4 inch taller). It cetainly looses nothing to the PE60 in terms of volume or projection, and of course, the Mustang is a complete combo amplifier.

I'm really happy I picked up the Mustang III v2 and I am still amazed at the price v. performance value of this thing.

Paj
8^)

BTW, I have a PE60 so I know of what I speak. If Fender doesn't provide a cover, the Tech21 PE60 (thick) vinyl cover is a near-perfect fit for the Mustang-III and is not expensive. I'm using it to protect my M-iii until my StudioSlip arrives.


Last edited by PajFender on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:02 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:55 pm
Posts: 4
I'm relatively new to playing, but my teacher recommended a looper pedal so I can practice my chord progressions and play over them. Soooo.... I bought a Boss RC-3 and have it working through my Mustang III, and it works great--BUT--I've noticed that now the amp only works if I have the pedal plugged in. I've disconnected all the loop cables (inputs and outputs) from the amp and I get no volume out of the amp. Tried everything that I can think of, but I can only use the amp with the pedal plugged in. Any thoughts why that would be??


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
One thought. You don't say this explicitly, but I guess you were connecting the looper pedal through the amp's fx loop.

The fx-return socket on the amp has a 'switch' so that the amp knows whether to use the signal 'straight through' the amp, or via something plugged into the loop. Perhaps that switch has got stuck on your amp, so the amp is always expecting a signal via the fx-loop.

To test this, plug a simple jack-to-jack lead from the fx-send to the fx-return on your amp. See if you now get sound. Then unplug the lead, from both the fx-send and fx-return sockets, and see if it goes quiet. If there's now no sound, it's likely a problem with the switch on the fx-return socket.

The other option of course is that you've inadvertently left a plug in the fx-return socket, thus effectively muting the amp. Make sure there is nothing in that socket. (I know you say you've unplugged everything, but worth double-checking).


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:44 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:55 pm
Posts: 4
Scott-UK: Brilliant! I figured there was a stuck logic or hard switch, but didn't consider jumpering out the loop. I used the short fx cable as a jumper between the input and output of the fx loop and it works! Thanks for the advice!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Anyone using pedals with the Mustang 3 v2 ?
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:15 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 1744
Had a 50 dollar amazon git card so got a Biyang Fuzz Star. Stuck it in front of the mustang with the overdrive stomp on the MII and wow. I'm impressed both with how well the MII reacts with the pedal cranking and the tone from a 40 doLlar bing muff. Think I might get their Rat clone but I suppose that's another thread

_________________
YMMV

Chont's Mustang Presets


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: