It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:09 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:26 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:59 am
Posts: 5
Hi there good folks. Just to be clear, I am not a newbie.
However, I am a newbie when it comes to the Mustang Floor.
I recently bought a Floor since i got a gig in a party-cover-band where i have to vary the sounds a lot.

My problem is that the amp-simps sounds horrible. Especially the Marshals, Mesa and the metal2000.
They sound like some real cheap beginner-amps.

Since the 80's i've owned several Marshals, Fenders and Mesa amps. And none of them have sounded anything like the sounds coming out of the Floor.
Most of the Fender amps sounds fine though. And if i tweak things a bit, the bad-sounding ones becomes a bit nicer. But especially the Mesa and Metal2000 is still horrible.

My output is set to: Combo Amp
My volume-level on Floor-back is under 50%.
Got a 1980 Strat in the input.
The Left-out goes into the Input of my Vox Nighttrain amp.

The amp that i use for output is a Vox Nighttrain. All set to neutral 50%, and Treble set to 40%. Gain is very low to make sure that it's not the amp doing anything weird.


When i hear the videos on youtube, they sound a lot better than what i hear on mine.

Question is, if i'm doing anything wrong, or these amp-sims actually are sounding like that.


Hope you guys can help me out...

;)Lars


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:59 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:11 am
Posts: 53
Location: Milano, Italy
Hi Lars! (er du Dansker?)

I gig with a Floor going into a couple of Behringer Eurolive B210Ds, both with the tone controls set between 9 and 10 o'clock.

I have three sets of the same ten presets tweaked for three different guitars, plus many of them I can use in FX select mode, augmenting the sonic possibilities without having to create even more patches.

The only advice I can give you is the following: FUSE is your friend. Download some presets from the community just to get you started, move some buttons until you start to "get" how the unit works so you'll be creating your own, song-specific patches in no time flat.

HTH,

_________________
Lt. Kojak aka Pepe
Milano, Italy


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:15 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
I'm definitely not sure what you mean by horrible sounding. could you describe it a little more? do you have a recording?

What I can suggest is, for starters, take your amp out of the equation.
The suggestion from LtKojak is very good, if you can try it through a PA or a powered monitor that would be best. If that is not possible, try good quality headphones on the phones out of the Floor and see what it does (it will not be the same than powered monitor but better than nothing)

I do not know that particular vox amp but voxes are normally trebly so I'm not so surprised you do not like the combination of the modeller (floor) plus an additional guitar amp. In my case, using a floor through a powered Celetion 12" I can make it sound pretty much idetical to a MBoogie 2 rect with minimal tweaking.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:28 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:59 am
Posts: 5
@LtKojak, Ja jeg er Dansker;)
@LtKojak, I will try it a powered monitor. My point (however) is that if my amp is set as neutral as possible, it should not have any impact on the sound coming into the amp. But maybe it has, since i am feeding the preamp-tubes with sounds it might not be built for. So i will be trying out an amped monitor. I did create some really good presets though. Mostly by using the "Studio preamp" as the amp-sim. The only other amp-sim, I think is really good, is the Fender Super-Sonic. I just tried the Mesa-sim again, and it really sounds awful.

@jedi2b, I will see if i can record some of the sounds. I' not kidding. It really sounds bad. Vox is trebly and "chiming". But i neutralized this by turning Bas and middle to 50% and Treble to 40%. REading the manual it does not recommend using an effects-loop when using a combo-amp. But i actually suspect that this will be the best solution, since it skips the preamp-tube's. At least that is what i was told by Mr. Google. I always been a analog-tubeamp-lots-of-pedals kind of guy. I have no problems there. But this party-band-gig here is so varying that i would have to have 10 pedals and change the dials on them constantly. By using a thing like the Mustang Floor, I can save a lot of time and money;). I am very picky about my tone, so my highest priority is to get the best output from the Floor as possible. I do not want to go directly into the PA. For the gigs I need an amp or amped-speaker.

If you watch the demo-video from Fender t seems they use Fender Combo Amps. But it can just be for good looking and not for the actual sounds that we hear in the video. LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QW1ntWKuy-o#!

;)Lars


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:54 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
If your amp has an effect return that is definitelly the way to go. On top of that I would recommend you experiment with several EQ settings on your floor. The one I like the most for most situations is PA+bass. Disregard the fact it is called PA, or Stack or whatever, just pick the one that sounds the best for your needs. On top of that you can adjust bass boost and treble boost on the floor for fine tuning.

Going back to the vox, no guitar amp can be really made flat (well maybe the Fender Twin, but just maybe :), the tonestack on the amp is just a basic tool but no replacement for an active EQ, so I would not be surprised if the vox makes your floor sound scratchy and trebly, even lowering treble on the vox amp.

Give it a try on the fx return and/or compare with the phones sound.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:59 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 pm
Posts: 638
If you are using an amp instead of a PA, you should send the Floor thru the effects loop return and bypass the pre-amp altogether. No matter what your settings on the amp, running the Floor thru a pre-amp will "color" your Floor amp models.

If your amp does not have an effects loop then you have no choice but to get as clean and neutral sound as possible and run direct... but it won't be as true as running thru an effects loop or a PA or FR FR speaker.

_________________
Tiger J

my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:23 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Montana
I put together a rack rig for my Mustang Floor and it is working pretty good for me...
A QSC GX5, Rane Dual Band EQ and a 2 x 12 with two Texas Heats..
I have the amp and eq in a rack with an Odyssey gig bag, so it is pretty easy on the back..

Image

_________________
In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
Band Site
http://www.reverbnation.com/bigskybluesband
Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:10 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:13 am
Posts: 12
Tiger J wrote:
If you are using an amp instead of a PA, you should send the Floor thru the effects loop return and bypass the pre-amp altogether. No matter what your settings on the amp, running the Floor thru a pre-amp will "color" your Floor amp models.


Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a question related to this. When I plug in to the effects return on my tube amp, I lose the ability to control volume through either the channel volume controls (understandable) or master volume control (less understandable) on the amp. Is there a way to use the effects return and still control volume with master volume?

Thanks in advance.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:39 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
I can't talk about the features of your amp.

what you CAN do with the Floor, is to use the EXP pedal as a volume control:

-configure EXP for volume mode on your presets
-with EXP volume maxed out, adjust the Level knob in the back of the Floor for the maximum volume you intend to have through your amp (I usggest using the dirtiest preset you use on the Floor during this process)
-now, control with the EXP pedal the volume between zero and the maximum you just calibrated


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:05 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dayton, Ohio
I don't have a Floor. But when I first got my MIII (version I), the amp models were disappointing, to say the least. I spent a good three days or so trying to "dial in" the "correct" sounds.

It was a waste of time.

I had to forget it, just plug in and play to begin to appreciate this amp. Also, we have to understand -- or at least remind ourselves -- that this is (or was) a $300 solid-state amplifier. No technology on Earth, no digital magic, no expertise can ever make a device like this sound like a real-deal Twin, Bassman, Marshall Super Lead or whatever.

Just try to enjoy the amp for what it is.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:24 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:11 am
Posts: 53
Location: Milano, Italy
InkStained wrote:
I don't have a Floor. But when I first got my MIII (version I), the amp models were disappointing, to say the least. I spent a good three days or so trying to "dial in" the "correct" sounds.

It was a waste of time.

I had to forget it, just plug in and play to begin to appreciate this amp. Also, we have to understand -- or at least remind ourselves -- that this is (or was) a $300 solid-state amplifier. No technology on Earth, no digital magic, no expertise can ever make a device like this sound like a real-deal Twin, Bassman, Marshall Super Lead or whatever.

Just try to enjoy the amp for what it is.


While you were "wasting your time" trying to "dial-in" the "correct sounds", I've recorded at least thirty commercial projects since I got my Floor, last november.

As I always say: "it's not the hammer, it's how you use it".

Enjoy your tube amp(s). Looks like modeling is just not for you. Don't beat yourself up; I'm sure you've got several other talents hidden somewhere. ;)

_________________
Lt. Kojak aka Pepe
Milano, Italy


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:31 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dayton, Ohio
LtKojak wrote:

While you were "wasting your time" trying to "dial-in" the "correct sounds", I've recorded at least thirty commercial projects since I got my Floor, last november.

As I always say: "it's not the hammer, it's how you use it".

Enjoy your tube amp(s). Looks like modeling is just not for you. Don't beat yourself up; I'm sure you've got several other talents hidden somewhere. ;)


No doubt you're a household name. It's a shame you can't read, though. Maybe you should get your mama to help with that between, you know, "commercial projects." :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: [floor] - Horrible sounding amp sims on Floor
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:25 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 300
FWIW:
Re the OP:
I've liked the Mustang a lot and felt the sounds were very good - but not earth shatteringly amazing (I have an MII).
I found my SSS Ibanez always tending to be over bright and glassy on many variants of gtr tone/amp model /amp eq - so I fiddled with the tone circuit.

Usual solution to de-glass is increase the capacitor value, but I ran a 1 megOhm resistor in parallel across the tone pot - that effectively reduces the 250k tone pot value to 220 k. I believe the resistor now alters the loading on the pickups - but I'm no engineer - anyway it works superbly.

I'm amazed how much more tubey the amp sounds, it's really night and day - the high gain models sound usable too.
So I bet that Strats with the 22nf capacitor tone circuits are prone to this issue of putting too much high end through the Mustang - and the bright Vox is adding to the woes.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: