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Post subject: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:05 am
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I've looked at posts about the Sag and Bias parameters in the Mustang series. I think I understand Bias - turn it up to get the sound of a tube amp running a bit hotter. But, I'm reading conflicting things about Sag. As I understand it, Sag is a slight delay, a "bloom", that happens with tubes. Seems to me that turning the Sag parameter UP will make it more tube-like, and some people are posting about doing that. But, I think that more often I see comments about people turning the Sag DOWN to make it more tube-like. The Manual gives no information about it. So, what's the real deal about Sag??


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:32 am
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hey dapperdan. I found that sag at med, and bias at 25-30 works well for me with most models. ave the m 3 v1 and I also found that these settings are more noticeable with the amp turned up a bit. I gig with mine and do all the set up with the master at 4 to 6. pretty loud but working the guitar volume is where I hear what the bias and sag adjustments do. Hope that helps a little.


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:20 am
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Hi DapperDan,

Amp SAG is a design defect found in some older tube amps that eventually became desirable by some players :)

In essence SAG is is the inability of some of those tube amps' power supply to keep up with the current demand when playing at high output power and with abrupt surges in current requirement from the power amp.
In other words, crank up a sag affected amp and when playing high attack notes or chords, the power supply will take some time to react and provide the necessary current to the amplifier, this results in a natural compression/limiter effect as high attack notes/chords loose a lot of that attack due to the sag.

In the mustangs you can use the sag parameter to emulate that behaviour, with sag to LESS you have higher volume, and more responsive attack from the amp, with sag to more you get more compression/limiting of attack and overall a little less volume. combined with different amp emulations this will give different effects. While it will not replace the compressor effect in all situations, it might become handy if all you need is a limiter and it does not take the STOMP slot on the mustang, so you can use another stomp effect at the same time.

It is also widely (?!) believed that increasing bias and putting sag to less improves the tube-like feeling of Mustang V1 amps. In the V2 amps I think they took this into consideration and models are more biased by default, the effect of SAG on V2 seems a bit less exaggerated too, but I'm not 100% sure about that.


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:51 am
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Dan, I've spent a year messing with the 3 model. the sag turned all the way to the right, mellows out the solid state sound. I can get a real good tube sound with the fender amp models and I use the bias to clean it up or add a little dirt.
you will have trouble getting all the pre-sets to be the same volume ,but it can be done.
This amp can't be set one time and then play a gig in any room. but it's just like a tube amp except with 100 choices. And it's a lot more responsive. Once I learned to control it on the fly, I can get a great sound anywhere.


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:29 am
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I agree, SAG all the way down and BIAS all the way up for most of my presets sounds best.

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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:26 am
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"Sag turned all the way to the right". "Sag all the way down". Like I said, "I'm reading conflicting things about Sag"...


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:26 pm
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HA................................... so true..


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:11 pm
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I have not been able to use this much as my amp is not at home.I have noticed that Turning Sag to the Left (more?) Makes the amp Louder.Especially with volume turned up.
I will try to see If I can notice Much of a differance elsewhere.But nothing major other then how loud the amp is for now.With amp On abot 4 or 5 There is a pretty fair differance in how loud the amp gets.Maybe someone from the Fender staff can Elaborate?


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:53 am
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Jedi2b summed this topic nicely in his earlier post. Not a lot more needs to be said, however I'll add that the MATCH setting is designed to emulate the natural/stock compression characteristics of the amp being modeled. In general, it might help to simply think of the SAG control as controlling a compressor that is placed in the signal chain after the poweramp model. The settings of this "compressor" are designed to produce less, matched, or more compression than the amp being modeled. Note that if you are not driving the amp model hard enough to exceed the sag/compressor threshold, you won't notice any sag at all. You can explore this sort of effect further by playing with the Threshold and Ratio controls of the Compressor stompbox after placing it in the post fx position.


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Post subject: Re: Still not clear about SAG parameter.
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:52 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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DapperDan7 wrote:
"Sag turned all the way to the right". "Sag all the way down". Like I said, "I'm reading conflicting things about Sag"...


I can't see how anyone could possibly misunderstand this parameter unless the person who posted that just can't be bothered to read. If you look in the "Advanced Amp" controls in Fuse, it's clearly marked - Left = Less, Middle = Matched, Right = More. It ain't rocket science. In the left position, the amp sags/compresses the signal less, in the right position, the amp sags/compresses the signal more and yes it will lower the output a bit.
If you can't hear the difference then just leave it in the default middle position.

O.


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