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Post subject: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:34 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
I'm not the best looper artist around, probably not even the best of my street but still I use it from time to time. So after some experimentation I have found a way of using a looper with M3-4-5 v2 with similar results to using the fx-loop on the M3-4-5 v1.

Look for other posts that explain why it is not a good idea to use the fx-loop on the v2 for a looper.

This will require some extra materials compared to the v1 looper setup:
-a XLR to unbalanced cable, or a XLR to unbalanced converter plus a standard lead cable
-a male lead to male 1/8 jack cable, or a 1/4 to 41/8 adapter plus a standard lead

This is the physical setup:
1 - connect the xlr to lead cable on any of the two XLR line-outs on the back of the mustang
2 - connect the other end of this cable to the looper input
3 - connect the Lead-to-1/8 cable to the looper output
4 - connect the 1/8 end to the aux-in input on the mustang

Initial configuration and adjustment:
-put looper volume/level to zero/minimum
-adjust the mustang master volume to your desired level while playing solo guitar
-on util menu on the mustang, configure line-out for 100% volume
-record a small loop on your looper, you will not hear the looper output at this point
-while playing your loop, start to increase the looper output level so it sounds through the mustang at desired level compared to your lead guitar playing (in my looper is 15% volume on the looper)

you are done. as long as your looper do not introduce a lot of delay (it should not or it would be useless as a looper) you will not hear any echoes or reverberations. I tried it with my ultra-cheap digitech looper and works great

The only possible drawback, is that while recording on the looper, the guitar signal will follow tow paths: directly through the mustang power amp, and through the looper and back to the mustang power amp, so as an end result, while recording, the guitar will sound a bit louder than when playing the loop later, but this is barely noticeable, and actually I found it desirable in my case (I prefer the loop volume to be slightly less than my lead playing, which fits this preferences perfectly.

Hope this helps. Please share your results and the looper volume settings you use with other looper models.


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:46 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 8:15 am
Posts: 310
Location: Southeastern Seaboard
This is good news.

My list of reasons to not upgrade to a v.2 is slowly dwindling.


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:41 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:55 am
Posts: 548
If you've checked the new beta firmware, it now allows you to use the looper as you wish!


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:47 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 8:15 am
Posts: 310
Location: Southeastern Seaboard
Added Utility Menu item to configure the Effects Loop insertion to better facilitate looper pedal usage. There are two options: Normal and Looper Pedal.
- Normal: effects loop is inserted after the internal effects that are located post amp modeling.
- Looper Pedal: effects loop is inserted after the speaker cabinet simulation if the headphones are not connected, and after the headphone cabinet simulation if the headphones are connected.

This is great news. Good job Fender!


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:05 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
wow i did not see that one coming. Look at this comment from a Fender representative:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=83653&hilit=looper&start=15

"hardware constraints limited where we could place the loop in the audio path, and these constraints make it unlikely that I'll change this position via a firmware update."

so now I'm confused :?: Fender could you please elaborate on this?

I will try the upgrade to see what it does. The other thing that either changed or is a mistake in the firmware release notes is the following:

as confirmed in the same thread above by Fender, this is the FX-loop placement on v2 amps with firmware 2.0, and I tested it and is accurate:

guitar input -> DSP "pre" effects -> DSP amp modelling -> FX LOOP -> DSP "post effects" -> ... rest of analogue stuff, power amp

If I understand correctly the V2.1 release notes:
"Normal: effects loop is inserted after the internal effects that are located post amp modeling."

this means that after the firmware update the signal chain will become:
guitar input -> DSP "pre" effects -> DSP amp modelling -> DSP "post effects" -> FX LOOP -> ... rest of analogue stuff, power amp

Could you please confirm if this interpretation is correct?


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:36 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
I did some quick testing so I will answer my questions myself :)

1 - the firmware upgrade to 2.1 was completed without any issues. I have a Mac and a Mustang 3 v2

2 - For reference purposes, on the Mv2 firmware 2.0 the signal chain is as follows:

instrument input - "pre" effects - amp emulation - FXLOOP - "post" effects - cab emulation - power amp

3 - With firmware v2.1 in normal mode, the signal chain got changed to:

instrument input - "pre" effects - amp emulation - "post" effects - FXLOOP - cab emulation - power amp

so the "normal" placement of the fx loop did change, and is much more useful now IMO

4 - With firmware v2.1 in looper mode, the signal chain got changed to:

instrument input - "pre" effects - amp emulation - "post" effects - cab emulation - FXLOOP - power amp

So as a bonus, as the fx-send get also the cabinet emulation included, you now can use the fxsend in looper mode as an unbalanced line-out :)

5 - none of the changes affected the xlr-outs, they keep the cabinet emulation independently of the fxloop mode selected which means they are located here:

looper mode:
instrument input - "pre" effects - amp emulation - "post" effects - cab emulation - FXLOOP - xlr-outs

normal mode:
instrument input - "pre" effects - amp emulation - "post" effects - FXLOOP - cab emulation - xlr-outs

Forget the workaround I proposed, this works much better.

As I am quick to criticize I'm also quick to congratulate. You did an excellent job on this one Fender.


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:10 pm
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Amateur
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 183
An unexpected change. I wonder how/why it became possible.


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:50 pm
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Hobbyist
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Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:08 am
Posts: 8
Well now.... That is a COMPLETE GAME CHANGER!....

I have a two week window to return my Floor (that I LOVE).... and replace with a Mustang 3 v2. New effects, amp models and Intelligent Pitch/Harmony, etc.

I know it will cost more money (as I will also have to buy the expression pedal too)...but I'd like to have those things....

Of course, I would be HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY... if Fender released a firmware update for the FLOOR to add those things....

Now we KNOW that they have the ability/tech to do the unexpected!!! How about it Fender?


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Post subject: Re: SOLVED: how to use a looper with M3-4-5 V2
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
So... who was in the forum that said that wouldn't have been possible to change the chain order ? or at least, not with a simple firmware update.. but just with an (future?) upgrade in the hardware.
So many changes are possible , more than we can think..

Dimitri


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