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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:28 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Drubbing wrote:
pyroman wrote:
As for what someone said about some people not wanting to bother to learn the amp... That's their own problem. ( it's also a big part of the fun!)


Shock horror, not all of us are gear heads.

I have precious little time and need to spend as much of it learning to play, not playing with amps - modellers in general were fussy and I couldn't get a handle on them in store demos. It's another reason I skipped the Mustang first time round. I'd either spend too much time messing with the fx toys, or leave it on clean and not use any of it.

That's why I chose a Pathfinder, which was a good choice for me at the time, and I still think its clean is better than any practice amp out there. Now I want something more versatile, so the Mustang's back on the menu.


Apologies for the sequential posts- I don't know how to quote two posts in one.

Anyhow, even with a basic, no frills tube/SS amp you still have to learn the amp, and how to get a good sound out of it.

I have to be able to get a good sound- otherwise I get frustrated. That's just the way my brain works. It helps to keep me motivated and wanting to play. An amp that makes this both possible and easy is a no brainer.

I agree with the suspect cleans on many practice amps. Good cleans were a make or break factor. I ended up finding that to get the kind of cleans I wanted, I needed a bigger cab, bigger speaker, and more POWER. ( I like em glassy, with some punch.) Single coils were also a big help.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:51 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12 pm
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Location: Perth, Western Aus.
pyroman wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
pyroman wrote:
As for what someone said about some people not wanting to bother to learn the amp... That's their own problem. ( it's also a big part of the fun!)


Shock horror, not all of us are gear heads.

I have precious little time and need to spend as much of it learning to play, not playing with amps - modellers in general were fussy and I couldn't get a handle on them in store demos. It's another reason I skipped the Mustang first time round. I'd either spend too much time messing with the fx toys, or leave it on clean and not use any of it.

That's why I chose a Pathfinder, which was a good choice for me at the time, and I still think its clean is better than any practice amp out there. Now I want something more versatile, so the Mustang's back on the menu.


Anyhow, even with a basic, no frills tube/SS amp you still have to learn the amp, and how to get a good sound out of it.


I know, but there was less to learn initially with a SS amp with EQ, trem and reverb, than all the computerydodaa of the Mustang. They were overkill for me, and I couldn't get a good clean from it. I'm sure you can if you've time to turn off all the added FX in the presets, but working out how when new to amps and trying out guitars in store as well? Too hard. Salesdudes, as ever, were no help.

I started learning last year, and all I really needed was a great clean. I did learn how better to use the Pathfinder though. There's more than one way to get good OD with it, which at first I thought wasn't possible.

On top of that, retail of a MI here is over 200, a MII is over 400, so that made it a tougher decision about picking one up.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:02 am
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Posts: 110
One thing that's worth saying is that once you set up the Mustang with the kinds of tones you like, it goes back to being ... an amp. That you can take with your guitar to far away places, like the bedroon, the living room, and beyond.

You do have a choice, either buy the actual hardware amps and pedals it emulates, or take a little time to customize a Mustang. It's not quite rocket science, you know. There are countless dumb musicians who've managed. You might go back to changing something after having more experience with it, but the basic premise is: "make it the amp(s) you want to play -- and play them".

It's unfortunate that the factory presets don't meet everyone's needs, but is that surprising, given all the flexibility? For years I played the amps I had and resented the fact I didn't have amp X or Y. It may sound facile, but, hey, now I pretty much have them all. Yeah, it's that good.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:13 am
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Rock Star
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 4099
Location: New York
I hear you though Drubbing, I spent a good amount of time learning my old MIDI rack rig. I had to actually read the manuals which a lot of people don't like to do. It takes time away from your enjoyment of the product in a way. At the same time, it adds to your enjoyment of the product once you know how it works.

For me, it's become part of being a guitar player to know my technology. It's nice though that you can still go out and pick up a nice tube amp, plug in, and play. These modeling amps aren't for everybody. But for those of us who enjoy the challenge of programming an amp, they are like crack.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:03 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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lol, did your old MIDI manual require an MS degree to understand like the one for my Digitech BP350? THAT is a pain in the tookus- so much so that I rarely use it. And that is a real shame, the fx in it are quite good.

Wow, Drubbs, the prices in your corner of the world are pretty harsh! To be fair, though- a new V2 Mustang 3 is now over $400 US, too.

Try this shortcut: On the Mustang III thru V, presets 87-99 are the Basic amp models with no fx. When the amp is turned on, it defaults to preset 00. Turn the data wheel (the big knob next to the LCD screen) right/counter clockwise, and you're there. No need to scroll through all 86 of the regular presets to get to the plain models!

I also own a Vox VT-20+. RARELY do I ever use anything but the plain amp models, plus whatever effect I choose. The other 66 presets, with fx and stuff on them, may as well not even be there for all the use I get from them.

Feel free to ignore all the extra bells, whistles, doodads, and gew gaws on there. They'll still be there waiting, when you eventually do find a need for them. The tuner, however, is very useful AND easy to use.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:19 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I think we need to clarify one thing about tube v.s. SS amps. It's the power transistors that don't distort as pleasantly as power tubes do. Otherwise, all overdrive/distortion pedals would use tubes as no one would like the sound of solid state stomps. This is not the case, however. Although there are some tube stomps, most overdrives and distortion boxes, in fact the most popular ones, are solid state devices - the Ibanez Tube Screamer, RAT, Wampler Ecstasy, just to name a few. I believe that most use diodes to create distortion not transistors but they are solid state nonetheless.

There are also some transistor (CMOS, FET and MOSFET) power amps that supposedly distort much like tubes do but they tend to be more expensive.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:02 pm
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@Orca, the distortion stomps are solid state for practical reasons: cost, size, ruggedness. A good engineer can design a transistor circuit that distorts a lot like a tube circuit. I've designed with both. It's not that power transistors are any different, the distortion harmonic content and the gain curve on all bipolar transistors is what it is, going from linear to plateau very sharply, while tubes do so gradually. Intrinsically transistors just don't saturate with a pleasing timbre. But at the low-power preamp level you can add circuitry to color the tone while only using the clean linear portion. At the output power stage it just becomes more costly to do that. Putting a DSP computer in the front end to simulate a tube amp is a more cost-effective (and convincing) way to do it, and so "modeling amps" were born.

And BTW, most effects boxes that proudly sport a glowing tube rely on an LED behind the tube to create the glow, and use the tube in a very limited capacity, if at all, as there's no high voltage supply in the unit. Vox had been marketing their glowing Tonelabs on the strength of the tube legend, but recently have come out with their StompLabs, using "a sound engine that has been distilled from the worldwide best-selling ... ToneLab series", that sound much the same, yet ... contain no tube.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:03 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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FernandR wrote:
@Orca, the distortion stomps are solid state for practical reasons: cost, size, ruggedness. A good engineer can design a transistor circuit that distorts a lot like a tube circuit. I've designed with both. It's not that power transistors are any different, the distortion harmonic content and the gain curve on all bipolar transistors is what it is, going from linear to plateau very sharply, while tubes do so gradually. Intrinsically transistors just don't saturate with a pleasing timbre. But at the low-power preamp level you can add circuitry to color the tone while only using the clean linear portion. At the output power stage it just becomes more costly to do that. Putting a DSP computer in the front end to simulate a tube amp is a more cost-effective (and convincing) way to do it, and so "modeling amps" were born.

And BTW, most effects boxes that proudly sport a glowing tube rely on an LED behind the tube to create the glow, and use the tube in a very limited capacity, if at all, as there's no high voltage supply in the unit. Vox had been marketing their glowing Tonelabs on the strength of the tube legend, but recently have come out with their StompLabs, using "a sound engine that has been distilled from the worldwide best-selling ... ToneLab series", that sound much the same, yet ... contain no tube.


I don't think we have a disagreement here, FernandR. As for the LED lit "tube" devices, Yup, I don't think I've ever seen tubes glow that brightly unless there was a problem in the amp and they're about to blow. :lol:

O.


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