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Post subject: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:59 pm
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I just picked up a Mustang II last week. Are these refered to as "Modeling Amps" as they are programable to sound like another amp?

This is my first amp as I recenly began to play guitar. I don't understand why this amp is programed to sound like another amp. What would the Mustang sound like on its own, if it wasn't made to sound like other amp models????

Don't quite understand all these presets.............(programed sounds)

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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:41 pm
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Yes.. the Mustang II is most definitively a modeling amplifier.

Every amplifier/cabinet has its own unique sound, and the point of the modeling amp is to try to emulate the sounds of specific amp models. This can allow you to try to come close to the sound you've heard on a particular recording or from a specific artist (if you want to sound like Buddy Guy, for example, you could model a fender bassman in a 4x10 cabinet). You may just want to dial in a specific tone for your own aesthetic, and having access to different "characters" of amps can give you a few extra tools to achieve the sound you desire.

There is an Empty preset or two under the fuse site that will remove amplifier and cabinet modeling. The sound you get with the empty preset is fairly bland, and is missing any pre-amp boost that gives volume and life to the tone. However, dial in one of the Fender amp models, and these little guys deliver a pretty convincing approximation. I personally like the clean sound of the twin, and the gutsy, dirty punch of the bassman.

Don't sweat it too much if you're just getting started. Concentrate more on your playing than the bells and whistles on your amp. However, if you are looking to get a particular sound out of the amp, check the Fuse preset download site, or post on the forum to see if anyone else has something similar.

Have fun with it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:16 pm
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+1 to jeff comment

Mustang amps do not have a sound on their own, they emulate other amps and effects.

As a suggestion, start by dialing the preset called basic 65 deluxe or basic 59 basman and you will be fine for a long time :)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:17 pm
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Greenleaf wrote:
Are these refered to as "Modeling Amps" as they are programable to sound like another amp?

Yes the Mustang amps are modeling amps.

Quote:
I don't understand why this amp is programed to sound like another amp.


Because they model tube amplifiers and many of the models would cost you thuosands of dollars to go out and buy the actual amplifiers assuming you could find them.

The difference between the way a solid state amp and a tube amp sound is in the way that they distort the audio signal.

As you turn an amplifier's volume up, both solid state amps and a tube amps will begin to create harmonic distortion. To put it simply and not to invite controversy about how this happens, I'll just put it this way:

* solid state amp harmonic distortion is unpleasant sounding and undesirable
* tube amp harmonic distortion is pleasant sounding and it's what makes them highly desirable

Quote:
What would the Mustang sound like on its own, if it wasn't made to sound like other amp models????


It would sound pretty much like plunging into a solid state hifi amp such as used in in a home entertainment system - clean with little to no harmonic distortion - lifeless.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:12 pm
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Thank-you much! I wasn't quite sure why it was supposed to "sound" like other amps. I'm going to have loads of fun with this thing!!!!

I have it connected to a new Washburn/OscarSchmidt Delta King OE-30
It's the perfect sized amp for my needs.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:22 pm
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You my friend are gonna have loads of fun. Enjoy the ride. peace


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:36 pm
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I must confess I got a chuckle out of the title to the thread.

To me, modelling amps are for those who need many different sounds, or who just want to try out a lot of different sounds/ amps w/o having to buy a whole store's worth of gear.

The added features- effects, tuners, user progammable presets, etc are just the icing on the cake.

I own 2 1/2.

Mustang III
Vox Valvetronics VT-20+
Super Champ x2 ( the half- it's not really a "standard" modeller. More a tube amp with a boatload of voicing options, and some extra fx)

I love both Fenders, and like the Vox- although it has not been plugged in since I brought the Musty home. As a pedal guy, I'm happy to report that the Mustang and SC accept pedals quite well. If you do decide to try some pedals with it, just be careful using massive level boosts into the front end. ( like a boost or overdrive with the volume/level knob turned way up) Digital pre-amps, like that of the Mustang, don't like that sort of treatment, and respond with nasty sounding distortion. ( think a low powered car stereo or boom box turned up way too loud) Dirt pedals work best with this type of amp when you feed the pedal's distortion to the amp, rather than trying to push the amp into overdrive. I've had great success using an OCD, an MXR Modified OD, a Blues Driver, and an MXR '78 distortion with my Mustang. Even stacking them!

So, what are your favorite presets so far? I like the Intro Clean, Bassman Drive, Johnny Marr Clean, Country Deluxe, Two Champs in Stereo, and Blizzard. I've been slowly trying them out, one or two at a time. You just can't beat some of the clean sounds, using a Strat!! I haven't even had to delve into tweaking the controls= the presets are very well set up strait out of the box. I've become addicted to the sound of Bassman Drive with one of my overdrive pedals in front of it. Just enough to add some growl and punch to it.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:03 pm
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The question has been answered, but basically a modelling amp is a box o tricks, saves you buying lots of gear, and can give you a massive variety of sounds that would be hard to get from one amplifier. They don't emulate things perfectly, but most are practice tools. Great for beginners to get lots of sounds easily.

p90sdude wrote:
[To put it simply and not to invite controversy about how this happens, I'll just put it this way:

* solid state amp harmonic distortion is unpleasant sounding and undesirable
* tube amp harmonic distortion is pleasant sounding and it's what makes them highly desirable

I don't agree with this view. It might be truer of bigger amps, but I think the negativity towards SS is unwarranted. The tube/ss debate is one that will always rage in guitar circles and it's really a personal preference.

I have a basic SS amp, not a modeller, and its clean sound is as good as any tube I've heard. It has limits when pushed too far with distortion, but then, it's a 15W amp. I've tried out guitars on a Carvin 100W amp, and it warmed up first, so I assumed it was a tube. Lovely sounding amp clean or dirty. But it's SS.

Conversely, I've tried out small tube amps like the Blackstar 5w and Vox AC4, and found them as thin and fizzy as any small SS, if pushed too far. These are popualr too though, so again, preference.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:22 pm
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FWIW, there was a time when all guitar amps used tubes, like everything back then. They sounded nice and fat. An electric guitar generates some strong signals with transients, and the tube amps would distort on the peaks with a lovely warm distortion. That's the sound of, say, a blues guitar.

Then in the early 70s transistors came along and guitar amps switched to transistors, and all the players got them. They discovered that a transistor circuit reacts to overload by crackling and fuzzing. For a given wattage rating they didn't have any reserve, so a 25 watt tube amp would sound as loud as a 100 watt transistor amp. That's because the tube circuit can keep adding more gain past their rating point, while distorting in a pleasant way, and the transistor amp just tops out, then sounds ugly.

So people gradually went back to tube amps, but meanwhile the manufacturers found that transistor circuits were very cheap to make, and were charging a big premium for these tube amps. So a lot of people started using "pedals" or "stomp boxes" to sort of simulate the distortion of a tube amp, and they'd plug the guitar into a chain of stomp boxes and plug those into a cheaper transistor ("solid state") amp. In addition, during the "pedal" phase, sound modifications called "effects" were invented, things like echoes, delays, reverberant room simulations, and so on, to make the sound more interesting.

By the end of the 20th century the computer got fast enough to calculate the way a tube amp reacts to the transients in an electric guitar, and so then digital signal processing (DSP) computer chips were programmed to "model" famous old amps, with the sound then amplified by a solid state power stage that's not run into overload. By flipping a switch it became possible to simulate very different amps, and even different speakers and enclosures, all in one box. That's what a modeling amp is. That's why the settings are named things like "'59 Bassman", or "65 Twin", which were very famous vintage Fender tube amps, whose tonal character is prized, and that now cost a fortune. Modeling Amps also added those cute "effects" from the stomp boxes to their capabilities, so a setup in say the red memory C might include a specific amp model, PLUS some different speaker cabinet, PLUS some echo, PLUS some chorusing. Such a memory location's settings is called a "preset". You can control some of these things from the front panel, including adjusting effects and storing that as a new preset.

Most of the stored presets in the Mustang are quite heavily loaded up with effects, IMHO, creating gimicky tones. Once you figure out how to run the FUSE software on a computer and connect the Mustang to it, you'll have complete freedom in creating your own settings, fine tuning the amp models, with or without specific effects, and storing them both on the computer, and into the amp as presets to use when you play, without being connected to the computer.

Welcome to some cool stuff.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:18 pm
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FernandR wrote:
Most of the stored presets in the Mustang are quite heavily loaded up with effects, IMHO, creating gimicky tones.


I think this is a negative for a number of modellers. The Vox VT springs to mind. Many of the presets bias the shreddy stuff and throw in a bucketful of FX. I preferred the vox layout, but hated most of the stock presets given.

Same with the Mustang. I think it would be better to load up the presets with basic models - clean and dirty, and let the user add or subtract what they want, and have the amp really demo what it can do without gilding it. Sure, you can do that with Fuse, but as a first time amp buyer a while back, I wasn't taken by the Mustang either for this very reason. And not everyone wants to have to learn an amp, a new piece of software at the same time, to get an attractive sound.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:55 pm
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That's why I saved my pennies, and went strait for the MIII. You don't NEED Fuse to do any of that stuff- it can all be done from the amp itself!

Effects can be switched off with the press of one button. Hold that same button down, and you can instead adjust that effect or swap it for another. I think the saying that most presets are "heavily loaded" with effects is a bit overblown. Most only have 1 or 2. and they're often fairly subtle.

Amp settings- inc Sag, Bias, Gate, and Cab are also adjustable from the amp. There are also presets for each amp model all by itself. Just look for the word "basic"

Extra bonus: it comes standard with a Celestion G12T-100 speaker. That, and the open back cabinet make a world of difference to the sound.

As for what someone said about some people not wanting to bother to learn the amp... That's their own problem. ( it's also a big part of the fun!)


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:21 pm
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pyroman wrote:
As for what someone said about some people not wanting to bother to learn the amp... That's their own problem. ( it's also a big part of the fun!)


Shock horror, not all of us are gear heads.

I have precious little time and need to spend as much of it learning to play, not playing with amps - modellers in general were fussy and I couldn't get a handle on them in store demos. It's another reason I skipped the Mustang first time round. I'd either spend too much time messing with the fx toys, or leave it on clean and not use any of it.

That's why I chose a Pathfinder, which was a good choice for me at the time, and I still think its clean is better than any practice amp out there. Now I want something more versatile, so the Mustang's back on the menu.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:54 am
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Can't speak of the other models, but the stock presets for the new V2 Mustang II are particularly hideous. If your guitar outputs a healthy signal, all the core (Amber) sounds act absurdly overdriven, for one thing. My wife was listening from across the bed, and said my new amp must be DOA.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:15 pm
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why do they provide presets that make nice fender amp emulations to sound like crappy metalhead noises?

Actually the more I play and tweak the mustang, the more I just use amp emulations and reverb with zero effects. Not because the effects are wrong, but because the amp emulations sound good on their own!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang is a modeling Amp?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:07 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
why do they provide presets that make nice fender amp emulations to sound like crappy metalhead noises?

Actually the more I play and tweak the mustang, the more I just use amp emulations and reverb with zero effects. Not because the effects are wrong, but because the amp emulations sound good on their own!


Ding ding ding!!! Preach on, brother!

This is what I'm doing more and more as well. I am partial to a bit of slow,deep chorus on my cleans and/or some delay. For the rougher stuff, I like a touch of fuzz ala Neil Young, or some light drive. I prefer to use my own pedals for this- call me old school, but there's just something about having a physical pedal to dial in rather than a picture of one on a screen. You can dial in some really nice sounds with just the amp/model controls though!


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