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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:33 pm
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p90sdude wrote:

But, a look at it's features should tell you that these are giving Fender execs nightmares. The competition is not sleeping.

Wow, that's pretty amazing. That would be worth getting rid of my Mustang Fizz v.1 and jumping ship. Have to see how it stands up to the first few months of reviews.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:46 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
the only reasonable factor to increase cost of production

I totally agree that price is set by market dynamics and I think it will start to drop as soon as Peavey releases their Vyper VIP amps, which are more feature loaded for the same price, and come to the market in May.


Actually I don't agree at all about that. The Peavey Vypyr VIP are worse than the last one for us guitarplayers. A lot of amps (like plexi, rectifier etc) have been removed to give space for synth-simulations :roll: and violin simulations :roll: and some bass and acoustic simulations. The vypyr dsp havent been changed at all according to peavey staff. So it is actually worse than the last one for guitarist. Peavey vypyr was known to have the best sounding metal-simulations of all the modelling amps, and almost all of the metal-amps is removed in the new VIP-range.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:54 pm
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p90sdude wrote:
jedi2b wrote:
Edit 2: how did they manage to make the VIP so ugly?

Amen to that! That whole logo thingy under the controls needs to go!

But, a look at it's features should tell you that these are giving Fender execs nightmares. The competition is not sleeping.

You know, I was actually thinking about getting a Bronco for my bass in a few months. But now, I'm thinking I could sell my Mustang II and my JamMan Solo and have everything in one amp for a lot less money and a lot more power. Hmmmmm

Fender hasn't given me much reason to be loyal.


400 presets sounds nice, the instrument modeling will be cool IF it's executed well. There is always the danger of a lot of the features being gimmicky. I would be curious to try one out. *** edit: I misread the first time**** 36 amp models sounds sweet...6 ACOUSTIC AMP models sounds even better! That is definitely something Fender dropped the ball on.

So far I've gotten a lot of satisfaction from my (fizz-free) MIII V1. Great models of the Fender amps. I spend most of my time using the Twin, Deluxe,and Bassman, models. I have a multieffects pedal that allows me to make up for some of the limitations of the built-in effects in the MIII, so they don't bother me too bad.

So far, Fender hasn't given me a whole lot of reasons not to be loyal....


Last edited by jeff_hatcher on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:58 pm
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Interesting, The site says:

12 amp accessible stompbox models plus delay reverb and wah
36 onboard amp models
Six bass amp models
Six acoustic amp models


I can not judge the quality of their emulations as I never tried that but it looks like they have no lack of amp models. I mean even if the acoustic and bass models are counted among the 36, that is 24 models for guitar.
Do you have a list of the amp models this things is going to have?


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:54 pm
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Quote:
what the v2 does is pretty much the same the mustang floor does ... AFAICT the V2 is a Mustang floor with some extra polishing

I agree the V2 amps seem to have similarities with the M-Floor. However, to my specific point about the V2 amps having extra componentry for two sets of D-to-A and A-to-D converters (as per Fender's confirmation of the signal path in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=83653), the M-Floor only has one set, the same as the V1 amps. So the V2 amps and the M-Floor differ in this regard.

(M-Floor's fx loop is before all the DSP; V1 amps' fx loop is after all the DSP; V2 amps have DSP section split in two with the analogue fx loop in the middle)


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:30 pm
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I see what you mean Scott, I'm not saying the V2 are a carbon copy of the Floor, but they are not very far :)

Regarding the AD/DA converters they are possibly among the cheapest parts of the DSP PCB and chances are the AD/DA module they used on V1 already had the extra AD/DA capacity.

To see what I mean, please take a look at the following diagram (an application note from the DSP manufacturer of the DSP used on the mustang series, I'm ready to bet the mustangs are not very different from that, you will see MANY similarities with the mustang components, particularly in the case of the Floor)
You will se AD/DA part is really peripheric.

Image

Source:
http://cache.freescale.com/files/dsp/do ... umentation


I do agree they still need the extra XLR connectors and impedance adapters but not much more, and those were already on the Floor anyway :)

I do agree they needed to redesign the PCBs and probably add some more circuitry but nothing major.

BTW, as a general note for everybody, the "Flash" you see on the left (or the equivalent on the real mustang circuitry) is what gets rewritten in the case of a firmware update. It is POSSIBLE that, if there is a limitation on the V1 vs V2 is related to insufficient FLASH memory to hold extra models.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:48 pm
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If my MIII did not have fizz, OR if I was playing with distortion. I would be a very, very satisfied customer of the Amps. There was just that very small fizz using a clean sound on 2 amps! Why did I even bother to return? Because I was able to and also heard about the V2. I am holding on for the V2. I wish I already had it, so I will know!

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:38 pm
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Sorry if this is a Peavey hijack of this thread but...

I was looking into the VYPYR VIP's on YouTube and there are quite a few vids there. Here are two.

This first one shows a live band with two guitar players and a bass player all playing out of the $200 VYPYR VIP 2 amps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk6mdlNk-aM

No demo on this one but you get a look at the cool "light show" the amp does on the control panel as well as a glimpse at the optional pedal. Again the $200 VYPYR VIP 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHkcJgKxmUU

Pretty dang impressive if you ask me.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:19 pm
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interesting. I was not expecting it to sound good for bass, I mean the acoustics, cabinet and speaker of bass amps are so different from guitar amps. Pretty loud too apparently.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:49 pm
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p90sdude wrote:
This first one shows a live band with two guitar players and a bass player all playing out of the $200 VYPYR VIP 2 amps


It's surprisingly versatile, but this demo video pointed out a couple of possible issues.

The bass lacks definition, bigtime. I realize it's a YouTube video, but still....

The acoustic guitar player might as well be unplugged, I can't hear it at all.

As far as the electric guitar sound, it sounds pretty good. A little 'buzzy' but decent. I wonder how well it can model a Fender amp clean sound.

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:02 am
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jedi2b wrote:
Interesting, The site says:

12 amp accessible stompbox models plus delay reverb and wah
36 onboard amp models
Six bass amp models
Six acoustic amp models


I can not judge the quality of their emulations as I never tried that but it looks like they have no lack of amp models. I mean even if the acoustic and bass models are counted among the 36, that is 24 models for guitar.
Do you have a list of the amp models this things is going to have?


36/3=12. All guitar amps have three channels (lead, chrunch, clean), they count every channel as an amp simulation. Don't forget to include the mandolin, synth and violon-amps. They guys at the vypyr forum are more dissapointed than us. They also killed of the Tube-models (which were the best) and the head-models.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:13 am
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strings10927 wrote:
...I wonder how well it can model a Fender amp clean sound.

AND Fender amp tube saturation sound. Thats what keeps me hanging on to the Mustang. If the competition could nail that as closely or better than Fender has, then they would have some real competition.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:58 am
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strings10927 wrote:
I wonder how well it can model a Fender amp clean sound.

Yeah, that's $10,000 question isn't it? So far, (and I haven't watched all the videos) I haven't seen one that demoed a Fender Bassman type model. In fact, the demos I've heard have all been modern amp models. If it can't model classic Fender cleans, it's a deal breaker for me as a guitar amp.

However, I might pick up a 2 just for it's bass abilities. I've got an Eden Nemesis NC 200A combo (4x10) that's a motha' to take to a jam and I don't need 200 watts any more. The VYPYR VIP 2 is $70 cheaper than a Bronco.

We'll see, these things are still 3 mo's out.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:16 am
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Looking closely it seems Peavey is launching a new line of products (Vypyr VIP) but not a replacement. That is, they will continue to produce and sell Vypyrs + Vypyrs VIP.

My guess is that Fender will come up with something similar, a new line of products that complements the Mustangs (Mustang pro or something like that). Possibly the Mustang V2 is a bridge to close the gap until then.

BTW, if you look closely, I would say the competition Fender is trying to beat is not Peavey, but more Line6. I think the Line6 spider are possibly still the bestsellers in their category (do a search by popular itmes in MF and GC), and the Mustang v2 added effects, amp models and hardware features that look like add-ons to get to par with what the line6 spider offers. The price point is also almost identical.

The one thing Line6 got better than Fender is that they get more juice out of their R/D. The Line6 spider line of amps was developed many moons ago and they keep reusing it via firmware updates with added features.

I can not comment on line6 amp emulation quality as never tried one of those, but I will next time I go to GC.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:17 am
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I guess I'm a rather simple user. I have stomp boxes already for my effects. I have only one tube amp I use for recordings and stage use. I don't really need 400+ amp, cab, and effects in a little box. I just need a grab and go amp for band practice and at home use. My band is not super loud (I'm a blues guitarist, not a heavy metal shred head). Basically, Bassman circuit with a little Reverb and Tremolo. I need nothing else... So am I better off just buying a Fender Mustang II V1 instead of wasting money on anything else?

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