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Post subject: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:14 am
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With the new Mustang V2's coming out soon, is the extra cash worth it? Sure they added a couple amps and effects... But are there any tonal, reliability, or other improvements? Seems like the new line is doing what a simple software update could of done? Help persuade me in buying a Mustang v2 instead of waiting for the v1's to go on clearence...

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am
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For me, the only true benefit of going from v1 to v2 is the xlr input. This should have been done on v1 if you ask me tho. It should have been obvious...


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:00 pm
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Is the XLR an INput or OUTput?


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:38 pm
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It depends...

The V2's have new amp and FX models...

V2 new amp models:

'57 Twin Reverb
'60's Thrift (Silvertone)
British Watts (HiWatt)
British Color (Orange)
Stereo Preamp

V2 new FX models:

Big Fuzz
Black Box
Green Box
Intelligent Pitch Shifting
Orange Box
Ranger Boost
Wah

Note that...

The V1 amps already have a '65 Twin Reverb and it is clean enough that it can double as a preamp.

The V1 amps have a Fuzz and an Overdrive (which can mimic a tube screamer or Green Box), Pitch Shifter (though not "intelligent") and a Fuzz Wah (auto wah).

The Wah is only useful on the III-V amps with the addition of an optional expression pedal.

The MI-II V2 amps haven't change features other than the new amps and FX.

The MIII-V V2 amps have XLR stereo outputs to connect to mixer consoles or A/D audio interfaces for recording. But the FX loop has been redesigned and some are not happy with how it now works.

Supposedly (and reported on this forum) the MII-V "Fizz" problem has been solved. This is very important to those playing clean Jazz and Country - not so much to those playing Blues, Rock and Metal.

The MIII has jumped in price to $330 from $300 and with a close out that would be much cheaper.

Ultimately, you have to decide what is important to you and whether it is worth the extra cost.


Last edited by p90sdude on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:16 pm
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That is a good summary.

I would add that in general people like more the aesthetic finish of V1 vs V2 in case that is important.

The absence of fizz has not been confirmed or denied so far AFAIK so any guess is good so far.

Why is it 330$ instead of 300$ as the good old V1 used to be?


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:21 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
Why is it 330$ instead of 300$ as the good old V1 used to be?


inflation?

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:10 pm
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jedi2b wrote:

Why is it 330$ instead of 300$ as the good old V1 used to be?


Shareholders?

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:38 am
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modwiz wrote:
jedi2b wrote:

Why is it 330$ instead of 300$ as the good old V1 used to be?


Shareholders?


10$ more expensive DSP och Powersupply so we have to pay 30$ more. It is still very cheap though. A Mustang v.2 head costs less than a cheap bugera head.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:30 am
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Many may not remember this, but the Blues Jr jumped in price when the V3 came out. Realistically it was all cab changes that didn't cost more... They changed the handle, added some rattle guards, and changed the control plate to black. Amp went up nearly $100. What they should of done was evaluate what BillM did to improve the circuit design and incorporate some of that...

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Last edited by DetroitBlues on Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:32 am
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I don't think it's the chip alone, chips are cheap. More likely the cost of the stereo low Z outputs - 2 XLR jacks, 2 transformers and a handful of resistors, caps, diodes and transistors. The audio transformers alone probably make up the bulk of the cost.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:53 am
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The DSP they use in the mustang V1 series costs 8 dollars, probably half if bought in quantities. Chances are, if they changed DSP models (which I strongly doubt, as the features of the V2 are nearly identical to the mustang floor) it is probably even cheaper.

I agree the XLR outs seems to be the only reasonable factor to increase cost of production. But I was of the idea they paid the XLR outs by sacrificing the carbon fiber finish vs crappy tolex.

Chances are, they will go back to 300$ after all the first-in-line people get their amp.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:35 am
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Quote:
the only reasonable factor to increase cost of production

As per the fx loop topic (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=83653), the V2 amps have two DSP sections, and two sets of A/D and D/A converters. The two DSP sections could both be in the single chipset, but the extra components and circuitry for the additional analogue/digital round-trip have a cost.

Also, the price doesn't just depend on the manufacturing cost; Fender has to cover the (one-off) R&D costs for the product line too: the above and other factors suggest there has been more than a trivial redesign of the amp's innards. Amortised over the many amps they'll sell, it's admittedly a small amount per unit, but it's still there.

Further, consumer retail price has little to do with either of the above, and more to do with the price a manufacturer thinks it can charge in the marketplace, compared to other products from other companies, and still sell the required number of units.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 am
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Btw, tell me about differences in the settings-menu, are there more to play with in there? Any new settings for the footswitch?

And why do the Mustang V and IV have a release date set to 1 april 2013 when the other three are availible? :( Gonna use the V-head model.


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:53 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
the only reasonable factor to increase cost of production

As per the fx loop topic (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=83653), the V2 amps have two DSP sections, and two sets of A/D and D/A converters. The two DSP sections could both be in the single chipset, but the extra components and circuitry for the additional analogue/digital round-trip have a cost.


with the exception of some signal re-routing, what the v2 does is pretty much the same the mustang floor does:
you have two XLR outs on which you can control eq settings (same thing on the V2 just that you don't have control on eq settings as explained by fender rep, it is fixed to "PA" floor setting on the v2) and then you have the floor phones out which has a slightly different cab-eq emulation (same thing on the v2 with the output to the power amp and speaker)

AFAICT the V2 is a Mustang floor with some extra polishing on the firmware. (minus the exp pedal, midi and unbalanced outputs, plus a power amp and a speaker)

I totally agree that price is set by market dynamics and I think it will start to drop as soon as Peavey releases their Vyper VIP amps, which are more feature loaded for the same price, and come to the market in May.

Edit: actually the VIP is going to be 300$ so I expect the mustang to drop to 250-270$ by July

Edit 2: how did they manage to make the VIP so ugly?


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Post subject: Re: V2 versus V1
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:41 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
Edit 2: how did they manage to make the VIP so ugly?

Amen to that! That whole logo thingy under the controls needs to go!

But, a look at it's features should tell you that these are giving Fender execs nightmares. The competition is not sleeping.

You know, I was actually thinking about getting a Bronco for my bass in a few months. But now, I'm thinking I could sell my Mustang II and my JamMan Solo and have everything in one amp for a lot less money and a lot more power. Hmmmmm

Fender hasn't given me much reason to be loyal.


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