It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:37 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:58 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
thanks.
i found the mistake.. there was an Amp + Cab section active after the PCM generators of synth sounds .. so i thought to send synth tone directly to mustang power amp but it was filtered and amplified by a blues amp model on pedalboard..
the right output setting on the GR55 so, should be Combo Return. Now i remember that i used the Line/Headphones setting to connect the GR55 to the soundcard..


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:14 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
wow, and I thought the Mustang config was too complicated for the regular guy, it looks dead simple compared to that stuff :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:42 pm
Offline
Fender Staff
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4396
Hi Guys,

With the updated firmware on the Fender® Mustang™ V.2 series amps, both Normal and Looper modes place the effects loop "post effects" or after the internal digital effects. Please see the diagram PDF via the included link below for more information and details. And please let us know if we can assist further.

Best Regards,

http://support.fender.com/manuals/guita ... tsLoop.pdf

_________________
Fender Technology Support Lab
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation
TSL@Fender.com
(800) 856-9801


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:54 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Hey thanks!

very informative document. It would have taken an eternity to figure out the fact that the looper signal is on the line-out and usb only if phones are connected. Not a big limitation IMO but good to know.

I would suggest that if somebody wants to hear the looper output through the mustang speaker AND record the looper output at the same time, one could do one of these 3 things:

-some loopers have stereo outputs, one could be sent back to fx-return on the mustang and the other to the recording equipment
-with loopers with mono output, a signal splitter or a small mixer, or even a audio usb interface with audio bypass could be used
-or for completeness, as the Fender document suggest, if the presets used for the recording do not use cab emulation, or they all use the same cab emulation, "normal" mode could be used instead of "looper" mode and in that case no extra hardware would be required, just the looper output connected to fx-return


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:21 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
jedi2b wrote:
wow, and I thought the Mustang config was too complicated for the regular guy, it looks dead simple compared to that stuff :)


Yes, you're right! to take advantage of the full features of Roland or Boss pedalboards you need to read their owner's manuals. And they're long tenth of pages..
Gr 55 has some simple menu for quick settings and other with advanced parameters: some menu are very long and you can scroll several parameters up and down by arrow buttons
.. particularly the list of parameters in two Synth generators is very long but complete.. and even though there is a larger display than the usual (i would say more less a car stereo case) is the same difficult navigate through the several parameters of that long menu.. luckly a good customer of Roland products created an open source graphical software editor to control all sections, parameters , effects.. in real time by computer and it works very well.
He created other free editors for several roland/boss pedalboards.. because the only exception to have its dedicated editor software from Roland was the top of the line VG99 .. for all the rest of products old or new , no official editors available.

I can just imagine how can be navigate or better, do advanced setting and tweeking on a state of the art digital sound processor like fractal audio Axe fx2 ... if you don't know how some of those advanced parameters change the sound of virtual amp model you could literally loose your way to back home.. you just do not overwrite the preset :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:13 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi,
unfortunately at least in my case it seems something is wrong ...
after the firmware update 2.1 i did some test connecting my Roland GR55 (which can be used also like a looper and bandtrack player) to the Return of Mustang3 V.2 but i noticed that the sound level to speaker is not the same when you choose Fx loop option Normal , or when you choose Looper.
If in the path from post effects to cab simulation there is not an amplifier you should get the same level and also more less the same equalization (if the cab simulation is off) ... but when i select Normal path i get, as said in a precedent post (i thought it was just a mistake of an amp model active in the chain of my pedalboard), a more noisy, hissy output and it is also much louder then the output i get when i select Looper path. In this case the output become at least 50% lower and the equalization is darker.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:35 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
what you explain is accurate. you will have a more amplified sound + some sort of equalization on the normal loop mode. I think this is by design. The cab emulation includes, IMO the following (from comments I got from Fender people, look at page 2 of this same thread)

1-an EQ + boost that is different if going to the speaker or the phones/line out
2-the cab emulation itself is different if going to speaker vs phones

1 and 2 exists to accommodate for the specific frequency response of the mustang speaker and to compensate for any coloring the speaker may add.
so the increase in volume you get in the "normal" position is because of point 1
Can't you use the mustang on "looper" mode? that will solve your issues I think.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:33 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi Jedi2b,
i see..
perhaps the point is right that: if in the normal path there is a boost and equalization to compensate the frequency response of Celestion speaker ..
should not be added the same equalization (and also the boost level) for the looper path to get a similar frequency response ?

perhaps I may be wrong but apart from the output level rather lower, I have the impression that something is missing in the higher frequencies or original brightness/presence of the sound when is selected the Looper path... for example using the model of a vintage Fender Strat or the model of an acoustic guitar ...
I would like if someone could do some testing with an external effect or multi-effect connected to Return and tell me his impression ..

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:00 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Hi frondizi,
The difference in level is expected. As jedi2b correctly points out, the cab emulation contains an EQ and a boost. If you insert signal before the boost (Normal position), the resulting output will be louder than if you insert it after the boost (Looper position). You can remove the EQ portion as you stated, by selecting the NONE cab. When you do this you should not notice any difference in EQ when switching between the two configurations. Thanks for the feedback.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:59 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
Actually I think the looper mode is ok like that IMO.

I can think of two uses of the looper mode:
-to actually use an external looper: in that case the fx-send signal on the mustang already has the speaker eq correction to make it flat. the looper will reinject the signal untouched via the fx-return and everybody is happy.
-to use the mustang as a powered monitor: in that case is the external unit (mustang Floor or you Roland unit) that should be providing the intelligence as it would be the case with most powered monitors. For example in the case of the mustang floor I would choose an output EQ called "combo" possibly with middle or treble boost.

In the other hand, if anybody want the EQ correction done by the mustang, you just need to configure "normal mode", and lower the output signal of your external unit to avoid any hiss due to too much pre amplification.

But again is just a question of taste. You may choose any combination you like.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:51 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 308
Location: Prato - Italy
Hi Ben,
so do you think that the difference on sound i hear between normal path and Looper path could be just caused by very different level outputs ?

i'll do further test setting the cab sim off, switching from normal to looper path , and identifying what two settings of Master knob gives me as close as possible the same perceived level in Normal mode and looper mode.. for example could be 2/2.5 (normal) and 5 (looper).

Dimitri


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:52 pm
Offline
Fender Staff
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 4396
Hi Guys,

I wanted to chime in here and send a big thank you to Ben Rathke for posting. His input is always valuable and informative. Thanks Ben. :)

Best Regards,

Alan

_________________
Fender Technology Support Lab
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation
TSL@Fender.com
(800) 856-9801


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:01 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 1315
Location: England
Quote:
the looper signal is on the line-out and usb only if phones are connected. Not a big limitation

Hmmm, what about the following scenario:
- Using a looper, and thus needing the amp's fx-loop in "looper" mode
- Using the Mustang's own speaker as a stage monitor
- Connecting the XLR outputs to the stage PA (with the entire signal, including fx-loop, going to the XLR outputs)

That's quite a likely scenario, but it seems we can only have two of the above three at a time? Or am I missing something?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:45 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 98
scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
the looper signal is on the line-out and usb only if phones are connected. Not a big limitation

Hmmm, what about the following scenario:
- Using a looper, and thus needing the amp's fx-loop in "looper" mode
- Using the Mustang's own speaker as a stage monitor
- Connecting the XLR outputs to the stage PA (with the entire signal, including fx-loop, going to the XLR outputs)

That's quite a likely scenario, but it seems we can only have two of the above three at a time? Or am I missing something?


This new firmwire is still in the testing-phase (beta), they just wanted a fast solution for you guys who had problems with the looper. I don't have a problem with the looper so I'm gonna wait for the final release :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang 3 V2 / BIG problem with looper in FX Loop
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:29 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
Posts: 824
scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
the looper signal is on the line-out and usb only if phones are connected. Not a big limitation

Hmmm, what about the following scenario:
- Using a looper, and thus needing the amp's fx-loop in "looper" mode
- Using the Mustang's own speaker as a stage monitor
- Connecting the XLR outputs to the stage PA (with the entire signal, including fx-loop, going to the XLR outputs)

That's quite a likely scenario, but it seems we can only have two of the above three at a time? Or am I missing something?


Hi Scott, glad to see you back. The best I can suggest in that case would be to let the fx-loop in "normal" mode, and either do one of the following:
-turn off cab sim
-use the same cab sim for all the presets included in the same loop.

I did not test it but I think is very possible that with the V1's there'S the same limitation as in the "looper" mode on the v2, as I think the cab emulation and ouput eq is different over the speaker compared to USB/phones (suggesting a signal split similar to the one shown in the V2 signal path PDF), but I can not test it myself.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: