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Post subject: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:23 pm
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Hi.

Just looking for some opinions here. How do the Mustang amp models stack up against Amplitube and other software amp models? Are they a lot better, or just about the same quality?

I have Amplitube 3, Fender, Metal, Hendrix, Ampeg, basically all the amp models they make. I'm pretty happy with all of them, but I also have a hankering to get my hands on a Mustang III of IV. I don't really need an amp, I just want one, and I don't feel like I can justify the purchase unless the models are a lot better. Particularly the high gain Mesa and Marshall inspired ones.

Anyone here who's tried both care to comment?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:16 pm
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If set up properly, the Mesa and Marshall models are awesome on the Mustang amps. However, by default they're not QUITE as accurate to the real amps as AmpliTube is (I run it on my PC).

The trade-off will be that with the Mustang, it's portable. You can take it to a gig, plug in, and rock. To get the Mustang models to sound more like the real amps, you'll really need to get into FUSE and tweak the SAG and BIAS of the amps first.

For example, to get the Marshall JCM800 to sound awesome, you can either use the default 4x12M cabinet, or if you really like Vintage 30s, change to 4x12V, then increase the bias to around +25%, change SAG to Less. Rip your face off!

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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:37 am
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Thanks FFX. Great information. :D

So it sounds like with the tweaks the Mustang models are about equivalent to the Amplitube ones. I'm not surprised. Amplitube's high gain models (especially the Dual Rec) are so kick-ass, it's hard to imagine anything other than the real amps sounding better.

Thanks for the details on SAG and BIAS. I actually have no idea what those parameters mean, (bit of an amp newbie) but it's interesting that they affect the sound so much. I need to research that.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:14 am
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two reasons I would prefer an amp based solution vs computer+ software:

-you don't need to end every troubleshooting nightmare effort by saying "oh well, it runs on top of a crappy OS, so what would you expect"
-you get to use more your guitar pick than your mouse button (which is a plus, as in my case I would like to learn a lot more about the guitar pick than the mouse button at this point)

BTW: I have a Mustang 3 and never ever use FUSE to tweak my presets, I can do 98% of the tweaking directly on the amp and is more quick and intuitive.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:28 am
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BIAS is the voltage setting of the power-amp tubes. In most valve amps, you can adjust the voltage up or down slightly. Increasing the voltage usually means the tubes run hotter and you get a more snarly, aggressive sound. Doing the opposite...well you can figure that out.

The SAG is the amount of time it takes for the voltage capacitors to provide power to your tubes during large changes in the voltage output of the valves. What I mean is, if you go from dead quiet to instant power chord, how long does it take the power tubes to respond to that input and provide the power to your speakers? LESS sag on the Mustang tends to make your amp have less negative feedback and have a more balls-in-your-face feel/tone. MORE sag makes the power amp feel restricted, less intense, more controlled.

One could argue that if the Mustang doesn't have that "tube feel" people on other forums complain about from SS amps, they should try it with the SAG on LESS. It usually shuts them up quickly and leaves them: :shock:

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Hagstrom Ultra-Swede
Custom Warmoth Strat


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:11 am
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FFX,
Wow. What a great explanation. Thank you very much. Can't wait to play with those parameters.

Jedi,
The "pick vs. mouse" factor is a major one for me. In a way, I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, I love the tweakability of the software option, and the ability to load up every effect pedal and rack unit I want on a single track and play the mad tone scientist. But there's something great about just sitting down in front of an actual amp and playing that makes you feel more connected to the music. That's a big part of my interest in the Mustang amps. That and the ability to toss it in the backseat and go jam with a friend.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:12 pm
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you totally got my point James. The mustangs are far from perfect, but at 250$ for the M3, which emulates reassonably well 20k$+ worth of amp and effects stuff is a no brainer to me.

And sure enough, if I had a pure software rig, and by any means my kid downloads a virus and for that reason I can't jam this evening I would feel really really dumb. :|


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:24 pm
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The Mustang III/IV do great jobs on Fender models (I've done side by side comparisons), not a bad Vox either.

As opposed to software models on the PC/MAC? ... No Latency!

I've screwed around with Amplitube, and I've shortened the latency, but it's still there. Fine for slow stuff, but that slight delay drives me nuts if I'm doing any relatively fast passages.

But those Orange Amp models are SWEET in Amplitube. I've been trying to get that warm, sweet, fuzzy, singing distortion on my MIII and just can't even get close.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:29 pm
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Jeff, I'm always looking for a tone challenge :) never tried to emulate the oranges though. Any particular model/setting you have in mind?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:13 pm
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Quote:
And sure enough, if I had a pure software rig, and by any means my kid downloads a virus and for that reason I can't jam this evening I would feel really really dumb.


That's another good point, Jedi. Never know when you're going to boot up ready to lay down a blazing riff, and be greeted with a blue screen. Amps generally don't do that. Yet.

My backup is a 1988 Princeton Chorus red knob 2x12 in nearly perfect condition (one broken but functional pot, mystery stain on the grill courtesy of previous owner). It absolutely rules for clean tone, but the high-gain channel is a bit... harsh.

I'm considering seeing what I can get for it and maybe bumping up to a Mustang IV. Those 2 12" Celestions. They call to me...


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm
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I'll play devil's advocate here. :lol:

I use Amplitube on a regular basis, and I had a Mustang IV for a while - no contest for recording, Amplitube stomps all over the Mustang in pretty much every way, particularly in feel and general tweakability. I was rather disappointed with the direct recorded tones coming from the amp even after much editing in Fuse.

Sounded great cranked up though, and a PC can't do that quite as well. :mrgreen:

If you want a really good upgrade, ditch the Amplitube speaker section and run it into Recabinet VST - massive improvement.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:27 pm
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Quote:
If you want a really good upgrade, ditch the Amplitube speaker section and run it into Recabinet VST - massive improvement.


Vulpinity,
Thanks. I'll check that out.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm
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PC latency is always a dealbreaker, and the 'Stangs just picked up 5 more amp models and 5 more EFX in the new V.2.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:08 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
Jeff, I'm always looking for a tone challenge :) never tried to emulate the oranges though. Any particular model/setting you have in mind?


Orange AD-30, Solo 2. I can't get it on the M3... not even close


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Post subject: Re: Mustang Amp Models vs. Amplitube 3
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:46 pm
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Wouldn't it be awesome if one of the new amp models was "Green Beret" or something and was an Orange OR120, or even a Rockerverb? Just any Orange amp?

Hey, a man can dream, can't he?

And I don't get any latency on my PC using AmpliTube, but I'm using ASIO4All and a Rocksmith USB guitar cable as my input.

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Marshall JVM410H + 1960A Lead
Fender Mustang V + V412
Fender Mustang II
Marshall Lead 12 3005 MS
Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst
Gibson SG Faded Special
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Hagstrom Ultra-Swede
Custom Warmoth Strat


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