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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:27 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I don't know what that other guy has, but I have a Colt AR-15. Very nice weapon, too. That's not even getting into my other 4 handguns...

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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:34 am
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Quote:
pissed off at fender right now I bought a mustang 2 only a year ago and now its gonna be obsolete no updates or upgrades thanks a lot fender

Back on-topic...

A genuinely interested philosophical question:

If one bought (say) a valve/tube amp from Fender (or whoever), and then two years later Fender started selling a new valve/tube amp that's different to the one originally bought, would the owner of the original be mad at Fender and expect Fender to upgrade the original amp to the new amp spec? No, I don't think any of us would expect this.

But because we bought a product that had (software) upgradeability, we intuitively expect to continue to receive software upgrades "for ever" - even software for a later generation of amp that we didn't buy. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just interesting how giving a product some level of upgradeability changes our perceptions.

(Personally, I hope Fender to continue to provide firmware updates for us V1 owners - even if only generic features and fixes rather than the new DSP effects).


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:10 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Have you considered that if Fender wanted the information that you're posting on their forums to be posted here, they would already have done it themselves? I wish you luck.


You're clearly rational and you have more than half a brain. Stop wasting your time. Life's short.


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:08 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I hear you Scott and partially agree.

Problem is, the Mustang amplifiers are not vintage stuff. I'm ready to bet that most Mustang owners have several computers at home, a smartphone and possibly other electronic gizmos, all of which are basically computers in disguise and of course are software/firmware upgradeables to some extent. The mustang 3-4-5 amplifiers themselves have a dual core CPU processor, a small screen and a small keyboard... talk about a computer in disguise.

Any of those owners would expect, as they do with any other of their computers in disguise, for the hardware to outlive the software by a great margin, I mean, even my 60$ blu ray player received firmware updates over the last two years.

The mistake is by Fender marketing gurus, if they had chosen to call the new series other than Mustang V2 nobody will be complaining. Mustang Pro, Mustang 10, Blackbriar or any other name would have done the trick.
But calling them V2 is a strong suggestion this is a software only upgrade (particularly when we are running V1.1 and V1.4 firmwares at the moment) so immediatelly it sounds offensive to existing customers. Keep in mind most of these guys have been upgrading from XP to Vista to Windows 7, or your favourite cat name in case of MAC over the last couple of years using the same hardware.


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:17 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
pissed off at fender right now I bought a mustang 2 only a year ago and now its gonna be obsolete no updates or upgrades thanks a lot fender

Back on-topic...

A genuinely interested philosophical question:

If one bought (say) a valve/tube amp from Fender (or whoever), and then two years later Fender started selling a new valve/tube amp that's different to the one originally bought, would the owner of the original be mad at Fender and expect Fender to upgrade the original amp to the new amp spec? No, I don't think any of us would expect this.

But because we bought a product that had (software) upgradeability, we intuitively expect to continue to receive software upgrades "for ever" - even software for a later generation of amp that we didn't buy. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just interesting how giving a product some level of upgradeability changes our perceptions.

(Personally, I hope Fender to continue to provide firmware updates for us V1 owners - even if only generic features and fixes rather than the new DSP effects).


I think you are right, but given that Fender has spent some effort canvassing users for features we would like to see as both firmware and fuse UPDATES, I think it only fair that some owners may be a bit upset that they would be asked to obtain a V.2 amp to get said features.

Once the firmware and FUSE versions are stable ( and from reading certain threads that is far from true) I would have no issue with fewer software updates. I would rather appreciate Fender spent some resources explaining what certain dials on the virtual effects pedals do, for those of us without a Degree in physics.

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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:44 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 6:41 pm
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It's understandable how this wimpy and awkward bastard stepchild V.2 came about. Fender's legal dept. held a gun to everybody's head on admissions over Fizzgate. Won't do it, no matter what for a wide variety of legal reasons. Thus the insulting and incredibly patronizing tone of the press release on Fizzgate.

So for that concession, tech and marketing were offered a quick fix: a new "V.2" with fixed fizz and a few (VERY few) features and upgrades. Rushed to market too early to try and save the Mustang's reputation in general. Let's face it, every potential customer who checked out Mustang forums got smacked with Fizzgate in their face, hardly a ringing endorsement of the product.

Sausage-making and amp development are seldom pretty.


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:23 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
pissed off at fender right now I bought a mustang 2 only a year ago and now its gonna be obsolete no updates or upgrades thanks a lot fender

Back on-topic...

A genuinely interested philosophical question:

If one bought (say) a valve/tube amp from Fender (or whoever), and then two years later Fender started selling a new valve/tube amp that's different to the one originally bought, would the owner of the original be mad at Fender and expect Fender to upgrade the original amp to the new amp spec? No, I don't think any of us would expect this.

But because we bought a product that had (software) upgradeability, we intuitively expect to continue to receive software upgrades "for ever" - even software for a later generation of amp that we didn't buy. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just interesting how giving a product some level of upgradeability changes our perceptions.

(Personally, I hope Fender to continue to provide firmware updates for us V1 owners - even if only generic features and fixes rather than the new DSP effects).


+1


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:55 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Well, if Fender produced cell phones they would have a new and improved one out every two to three months AND you would be on contract and couldn't get an upgrade for two years unless you paid five times as much!

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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:35 am
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Tiger J wrote:
Well, if Fender produced cell phones they would have a new and improved one out every two to three months AND you would be on contract and couldn't get an upgrade for two years unless you paid five times as much!


Yeah, I regret that I bought a phone on contract. It got water damaged a while ago, so the damage was self-inflicted, I have to pay a lot to repair it or get another one .. gah..


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am
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captainwave wrote:
Personally, I don't care much for the posted upgrades. I just need ONE and that is the possibility to combine effects like overdrive and wah or modulations like a chorus and phaser, which is what you can do in the real world... Please Fender :x


Hi,
it seems that with the new version you can combine at least one of the overdrives/fuzz available with the wah or touch wah added also in the modulation section..
i have just find all the new features in the advanced manual V.2 .. and seems that wah and touch wav effects are in both sections.
http://support.fender.com/manuals/guitar_amplifiers/MustangI-V_(v.2)_advanced_manual_revA_English.pdf

no chorus + phaser because are in the same section..

i think that would be nice to have the possibility to update the firmware or to change the microchip (not free ) to get the new amps and effects in the old version 1.
If i was able, i sell my Mustang III vers.1 and try to get the new one at a good price..
will see...

Dimitri


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:05 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I can see what they did was to add the Wah as both a stompbox and a modulation effect the same they have done in the case of the Mustang Floor. Why they did this exception with the Wah and nothing else I have no idea. Useful if you own a EXP pedal.

Apparently now you can adjust the line out level, similar to the Floor volume knob

No mention of different EQ configurations on the XLR outputs as you have in the Floor. A pity as I find this a super good feature of the floor to adapt to different PA's and mixers.

For the rest, excluding the the few new amp models and effects it looks to me identical to the previous version amps


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:45 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
I hear you Scott and partially agree.

Problem is, the Mustang amplifiers are not vintage stuff. I'm ready to bet that most Mustang owners have several computers at home, a smartphone and possibly other electronic gizmos, all of which are basically computers in disguise and of course are software/firmware upgradeables to some extent. The mustang 3-4-5 amplifiers themselves have a dual core CPU processor, a small screen and a small keyboard... talk about a computer in disguise.

Any of those owners would expect, as they do with any other of their computers in disguise, for the hardware to outlive the software by a great margin, I mean, even my 60$ blu ray player received firmware updates over the last two years.

The mistake is by Fender marketing gurus, if they had chosen to call the new series other than Mustang V2 nobody will be complaining. Mustang Pro, Mustang 10, Blackbriar or any other name would have done the trick.
But calling them V2 is a strong suggestion this is a software only upgrade (particularly when we are running V1.1 and V1.4 firmwares at the moment) so immediatelly it sounds offensive to existing customers. Keep in mind most of these guys have been upgrading from XP to Vista to Windows 7, or your favourite cat name in case of MAC over the last couple of years using the same hardware.


It actually sounds more like brilliance on the part of the Fender marketing gurus; they're taking a page right out of the Apple play book.

Does anybody have an iPhone? iPhone 2? iPhone 3? iPhone 3G? iPhone 4? 4S? 5?

It is upsetting to spend a lot of money on something just to have a newer/upgraded model come out afterwards. But, that's the way it goes with EVERYTHING tech/computer based. It's Moore's Law. I highly doubt the hardware inside these things are unchanged. Everything is constantly evolving (memory, surface mount chips, caps, etc...). I'm sure Fender is using whatever is cheapest & most readily available to their vendors & manufacturers right now....which is likely something newer than in previous Mustang models or "versions".

It also takes a lot of time...and money...to develop this technology. They can't just give it away for free. That would be poor business sense. Everyone with a Mustang amp already got essentially 12 amps for price of maybe 1/2 a tube amp? Plus how many virtual pedals/effects? Are people really upset that they aren't getting 5 more for free?

How many do people need? I know I typically use maybe 2-3 at most (unless I'm just playing around or "need" a different sound).

Plus, I'm not sure the software update analogy is wholly applicable. Software is slightly different than firmware. I would consider Fuse to be the Mustang's software...and that's free. How much does Apple & Microsoft charge for their OS Upgrades?

This is a non-argument and just people venting. Again, go back to the iPhone scenario.

....no offense intended. :D

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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:06 pm
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Well, problem is, unlike Apple, Fender is financially fighting to survive.
Not a lot of people nowadays is willing to pay 1k$-2k$ for tube technology from the 1930's anymore, so unless they build and keep a reasonable customer base on their razor-thin-profit easily-commoditized hi-t4ch stuff they will be replaced in no time by someone else.

Smarter than making users change hardware "versions" whatever that means, it would be smarter IMO to charge users for new amp and effect models, amplitude style, independently of the hardware. Probably Fender did not realize this yet, but to succeed in this market segment they need to become more of a software vendor than a hardware vendor.

As a proof of this, the DSP they used in V1 amps costs 9$, I'm pretty sure the V2 DSPs are even less expensive than that, so they should try and monetize their real advantage instead (i.e. amp emulation software models not the hardware that runs the models)

Is just a question of time before Mr. Amplitube's CEO and the like decide to build and sell a cheap DSP based platform to run their models, and that would leave Fender, Peavey and the others relegated to a museum.


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:57 am
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jedi2b wrote:
it would be smarter IMO to charge users for new amp and effect models, amplitude style, independently of the hardware. Probably Fender did not realize this yet, but to succeed in this market segment they need to become more of a software vendor than a hardware vendor.


It is right the thing i was thinking about! i totally agree with you : i guess almost the 100% of us would be happy to accept a little charge for every model of new amp and effect available , right in the same way Amplitude usually does.

The "famous" fizz problem was solved on the clean tones with the firmware 1.10 or precedent but it is still there using the overdriven tones.. and it is a little hard to do the straight sustained notes like Santana when you have that kind of modulation or kind of beat effect like the strings was out of tune.

So i would like to solve definitely this problem : with an upgrade/update or (sigh) giving back my Mustang III (condiction as new and european warranty is still valid) to the guitar store and try to get a good evaluation of it to minimize the cost for the new one.


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Post subject: Re: Dear Fender: V.2 as Firmware Update?
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:15 am
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I can easyly accept if it is not be possible to update my Mustangs. But what makes me really angry, is that nobody of the Fender staff here is able to say a single word to all the V2 topics (at least to stop speculations and rumours what should be matter of their own concern).


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