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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:23 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
Hi joaquin.moreno,

As this entire subject comes down to largely a matter of taste, can you specify which of your questions you are asking us to respond to?


The question is :

Now that my Senheiser HD202 sound like crap when i use them on my MIII ( only when i use them on my MIII and even worse when i use a minimun of distortion ) .. what model of headphones would sound GOOD .

My options are 1) Audio Technica M50
2) Bayerdynamic DT 770

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:54 pm
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Hi joaquin.moreno,

Thanks for the clarification. We cannot recommend any specific brand or model of headphones to you. As I stated here yesterday, I tested the headphone output with a lower cost pair of Audio Technicas. They sounded good overall on both guitar and Aux in signal. If it were me, I would most likely go with the brand/model that I was most familiar with.

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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:57 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
Hi joaquin.moreno,

Thanks for the clarification. We cannot recommend any specific brand or model of headphones to you. As I stated here yesterday, I tested the headphone output with a lower cost pair of Audio Technicas. They sounded good overall on both guitar and Aux in signal. If it were me, I would most likely go with the brand/model that I was most familiar with.


Thanks man ! Thats the answer i needed.
Regards.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:52 pm
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Hi joaquin.moreno,

When you get your headphones, please leave a comment about whether they suitably provide the flat response that you're looking for.
Also please comment about how they sound compared to the built-in speaker.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:55 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
I trust that you received my email. Here is the same information. The headphone impedance for the Fender Mustang series amps is 25 ohms left and right. A wide variety of headphones will work. You may want to look for a pair rated at 32 ohms. These would be optimal.

Hi Fender Staff,

Question:
Please will you advise what is the "output impedance" of the Mustang III headphone jack.

Reason for question:
My reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones#Impedance) reveals that "headphone impedance" relates to the headphones not the amp, and for quality listening it should be at least 8 times the "output impedance" of the device (amp headphone socket) that it is connected to.

So for instance, a headphone impedance of 32 ohms would be good for an output impedance of up to 4 ohms. If output impedance is 25 ohms, we'd want a headphone impedance of at least 200 ohms.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 pm
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Hi Guys,

As stated previously, the headphone amp stats are as follows. "The headphone impedance for the Fender Mustang series amps is 25 ohms left and right. A wide variety of headphones will work. You may want to look for a pair rated at 32 ohms. These would be optimal." This information came directly form the lead engineer who worked on the Fender Mustang series amps.

In more practical terms, I would say that the impedance discussion here may be missing the point a bit. Perhaps the overriding focus should be simply connecting your headphones of choice and listening to see if the headphones sound good to you and meet your needs. With that said, again, the headphone amp on these products can accept a fairly wide range of impedance. Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:09 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
Hi Guys,

As stated previously, the headphone amp stats are as follows. "The headphone impedance for the Fender Mustang series amps is 25 ohms left and right. A wide variety of headphones will work. You may want to look for a pair rated at 32 ohms. These would be optimal." This information came directly form the lead engineer who worked on the Fender Mustang series amps.

In more practical terms, I would say that the impedance discussion here may be missing the point a bit. Perhaps the overriding focus should be simply connecting your headphones of choice and listening to see if the headphones sound good to you and meet your needs. With that said, again, the headphone amp on these products can accept a fairly wide range of impedance. Please let us know if we can assist further.


Thanks for the quick answer.

It is impractical to lug the MIII around to each shop, especially if buying online. This is where specs are useful.

Since 32 ohm headphones are optimal, it would seem that the output impedance of the headphone socket would be around 4 ohms (32 / 8 ).

My goal, as stated elsewhere, is to get a set of headphones that sound nearly the same as the MIII speaker, to allow confident amp tweaking without bothering others.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:31 am
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stephenbgood wrote:
Fender TSL wrote:
Hi Guys,

As stated previously, the headphone amp stats are as follows. "The headphone impedance for the Fender Mustang series amps is 25 ohms left and right. A wide variety of headphones will work. You may want to look for a pair rated at 32 ohms. These would be optimal." This information came directly form the lead engineer who worked on the Fender Mustang series amps.

In more practical terms, I would say that the impedance discussion here may be missing the point a bit. Perhaps the overriding focus should be simply connecting your headphones of choice and listening to see if the headphones sound good to you and meet your needs. With that said, again, the headphone amp on these products can accept a fairly wide range of impedance. Please let us know if we can assist further.


Thanks for the quick answer.

It is impractical to lug the MIII around to each shop, especially if buying online. This is where specs are useful.

Since 32 ohm headphones are optimal, it would seem that the output impedance of the headphone socket would be around 4 ohms (32 / 8 ).

My goal, as stated elsewhere, is to get a set of headphones that sound nearly the same as the MIII speaker, to allow confident amp tweaking without bothering others.



I have the same problem ! I have 32 ohm Senheiser HD202 and they sound like CRAP. So 32 is not optimal to me or at least the senheiser ones. Does anyone have used the audio technica M50's on the MIII ????


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:44 pm
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Hi joaquin.moreno,

I definitely hear where you are coming from. And I will be happy to research a bit more here at Fender. Another detail you may also want to consider is that the headphone output is a full bandwidth output vs. the speaker, which is limited bandwidth by nature. So, you won't really be able to recreate the "exact" sound from one listening point to the other. But I will discuss your additional feedback regarding headphone impedance with a couple of people here and follow up.

Regards,

Alan

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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:54 pm
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joaquin.moreno wrote:
My goal, as stated elsewhere, is to get a set of headphones that sound nearly the same as the MIII speaker, to allow confident amp tweaking without bothering others.



I have the same problem ! I have 32 ohm Senheiser HD202 and they sound like CRAP. So 32 is not optimal to me or at least the senheiser ones. Does anyone have used the audio technica M50's on the MIII ????[/quote]

Don't confuse "impedance" with "sound quality," as they are largely unrelated. Impedance has more to do with volume, than quality of sound.

There are good sound and bad sounding lower impedance phones, and there are good and bad sounding higher impedance phones.

I'm using my ancient Koss Pro 4AA phones on my Mustang III, and am happy with the sound. My only gripe with these phones is that they are on the heavy side, which can get uncomfortable when playing for long periods.

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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:42 am
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I'm listening on my MIII to various presets on a pair of 38-ohm ATH-M50s right now and they also sound like crap. But I don't think that's Fender's fault. This is sound designed to come out of speakers, not headphones. It doesn't sound like a mismatch or anything, I hear everything fine, lots of highs and lows and all. It just sounds...weird. Kind of overly compressed and fizzy and digital. I just think that's what this amp's output sounds like via headphones which it was never designed to focus on. It sounds great through the Celestion, and that's what counts. This doesn't bother me at all, and maybe I can improve things with different cab emulation. But in general these digi-modelers always sound kind of fizzy and goofy in headphones. Too present, too processed, too digitized. The speaker smooths all that out in just the right way.

In contrast, my old Scholtz Rockman sounded fantastic in headphones. Why? Because it was designed to sound great through headphones. Sometimes life is just as simple as it seems.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:42 am
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I have even gotten acceptable results with some stock ear buds of unknown manufacture. I am also able to closely identify what sort of insect is flying in my area before seeing it. I do well with aural nuances. I have some very entry level sony over the ear headphones that sound very good also. I am thrilled with how good my mustang and bronco amps sound through headphones. But, I'm 60 years and still remember getting off of my butt to change a channel. All 7 of them. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:41 pm
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Of the headphones I've tried:

- Sennheiser HD215 (32 ohm) sounded clear even with distortion and the tube sounds were great, but there was not enough bass volume.
- Apple In Ear Earphones (32 ohm) sounded OK for cleans, but crackled when using distortion. Even less bass volume.
- Behringer HPM1000 sounded muddy. Not even pleasant.

If the guitar amps being modeled use speakers that don't reproduce treble sounds, then I suggest those treble sounds should not be sent to the headphones.

Maybe Fender could add to the firmware an option to make the headphones sound like the speaker, by boosting the bass and cutting the treble (except perhaps for what comes from the aux-in). Surely this would make the Mustangs better as practise amps.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:40 am
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Headphones, even great ones like the ATH-M50, are simply radically different sonic delivery systems than guitar speakers. Fender made the Mustangs sound killer out of a speaker. And the treatment to do the same for phones is simply too involved and peripheral for them to bother. And I don't blame them.

I hear the guitar clean, all the freqs are there, volume's fine, nothing is technically "wrong". It just sounds like crap through phones. As you'd expect. They are a tacked-on appliance here, a casual extra feature to add a bit of utility. It's all good. No harm, no foul.


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Post subject: Re: MIII Headphone Jack - info reqd.
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:42 am
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
... And the treatment to do the same for phones is simply too involved and peripheral for them to bother.


um.. so why is it called an "emulated out "
it also sounds pretty poor when recorded via USB into the PC and then played back on speakers
emulated, it ain't


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