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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:51 pm
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what firmware version is loaded?

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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:54 am
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It was updated with the latest firmware.

You just reminded me that I didn't do a factory restore before I shoved it in my truck.
Someone somewhere someday is gonna have some cool presets I made lol.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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I recommend you try the new amp before leaving the store, if possible with a guitar similar to your own and with the master volume at the same level you play. If by any chance is the fizz that is bugging you, an you are part of the fizz-sensitive crowd you might find all Mustangs 3-4-5 have it (once you hear it it will haunt you to death :) so maybe getting a mustang floor or a mustang 2 would be a better idea in that case.
If not, be happy with your new M4!


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:53 am
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Has it been confirmed that later manufactured Mustangs have the same issue?


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:19 am
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Aspiring Musician
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My M3 if from fev 2012 and it has the fizz if you know how to look for it.

a month ago I tried 3 mustangs at a guitarcenter and all had the fizz, again, with the "proper" preset and with a "trained" ear :)


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:22 am
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Professional Musician
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Location: England
Quote:
Has it been confirmed that later manufactured Mustangs have the same issue?

Nothing has been confirmed, by Fender or anyone else. It is believed that all Mustang 3, 4 and 5s are susceptible to the problem, regardless of manufacturing date: past, present and future. Any products Fender may make in the future to replace / update the current Mustangs may or may not also exhibit the same problem.

Note the problem isn't specific to Mustangs. The same issue has been reported against other manufacturers' similar products. It seems to be an issue that potentially afflicts any equipment that includes digital processing and a power amp in the same unit. (Although this thread isn't the place to start speculation / discussion on why that should be, it's already been covered in the infamous fizz thread).

Let's just hope that all the manufacturers realise the strength of their customers' feelings about this and have found the reason for the problem, and will ensure it doesn't plague their future offerings.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:30 am
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Aspiring Musician
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What scott says is true I think, all Vox and Marshall modelling amps I tried and all guitar modelling pedals I tried exhibit some sort of digital artifact, but is negligible unless you really look for it.

As a sidenote, in the same visit to the Guitarcenter, I tried all the Fender 1K$+ tube amps and all of them showed WAY worst sound problems than the mustangs (for other reasons evidently) name it feedback, microphonics, and other unpleasant sounds.

The end note for me is that guitar amps are NOT suposed to sound Hi-Fi, so no vendor really tries hard to do it.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:37 am
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Professional Musician
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jedi2b wrote:
What scott says is true I think, all Vox and Marshall modelling amps I tried and all guitar modelling pedals I tried exhibit some sort of digital artifact, but is negligible unless you really look for it.

As a sidenote, in the same visit to the Guitarcenter, I tried all the Fender 1K$+ tube amps and all of them showed WAY worst sound problems than the mustangs (for other reasons evidently) name it feedback, microphonics, and other unpleasant sounds.

The end note for me is that guitar amps are NOT supposed to sound Hi-Fi, so no vendor really tries hard to do it.


I think you make some very valid and solid points here.
Time to rock n roll?

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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:17 am
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Professional Musician
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Location: England
Quote:
guitar amps are NOT supposed to sound Hi-Fi, so no vendor really tries hard to do it

A different way of looking at it: in the early days, it wasn't possible (or at least economically so) to make guitar amps sound hi-fi: reasons are low quality components, venue power supplies, etc.

So people (musicians, sound engineers) got used to the idea that the sound wasn't hi-fi.

When "audiophile" hi-fi progressed in the 70s/80s, guitar equipment manufacturers didn't feel the need to follow suit, because the users were used to not expecting it.

Now, of course, it is very easy and cheap to get hifi sound from any audio equipment. But it seems guitar equipment manufacturers don't bother because they don't need to.

That is, it's not that amps aren't supposed to sound hi-fi, rather everyone's just in the mindset that they don't need to. Indeed, a valve/tube amp is almost considered superior if it does reproduce all the grungy noise and problems of a "classic" amp from 40 years ago...!

NB I don't say any of that as a criticism. It's an interesting personal paradox that I can be a bit of an audiophile nut with hifi, but I hate the sound of my guitar amplified through my hifi kit. It appears to sound better through a comparatively lo-fi guitar amp. Maybe it's just the low-quality amp masking the low-quality of my playing!


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:35 am
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Haven't I read that some people reported that their amp doesn't suffer from the fizz at all?
In any case, I will at least have a brand new amp in the box.
Although I'm not gonna have time to try it out at the store...not if I want to avoid a four hour ride home in rush hour.
At least if I end up returing the new one I can just take it to the store close to my house.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:40 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 am
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you make very good points there.

I'm in the process of building an amp myself and had to chose a speaker lately... Let me tell you that if any modern audio engineer sees the curve characteristics of a guitar amp speaker would kick the speaker away in disgust... and they crazy thing is that good guitar amp speakers are more expensive than Hi-Fi comparable ones.

Marketing is king I guess.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:50 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Ephminus,

I believe that all mustangs 3-4-5 have the fizz thing, as is hardware related.

In the other hand In order for people to report it they need to:
-care about it
-use clean presets and playing in a way the fizz is evident
-play loud enough
-have a good hearing


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:00 am
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Looks like I'm gonna be the guinea pig here.


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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:20 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:43 pm
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Location: Here In Oregon
Some added points, all in context to this thread but all over the map so bear with me.

1. Guitar speakers are made to stay in the frequency range of the guitar and that is why you do not want a speaker trying to put out all those added frequencies even if the amp was capable of it. It will yuck up a mix big time. Anybody, ever heard of the 60 hz cycle hum. Never mind, that is a whole different animal and story.

2. Amps in the store are notoriously misleading because of abuse.

3. Your ears are very important and I know many musicians, engineers, etc. who cannot hear squat today. I think people are easily allured to the bigger amps for fear it won't be loud enough and that is why I think people should give the Mustang 2 a closer consideration.

4. The Mustang 2 has no fizz issue, sounds great like his big brothers/sisters, and can get plenty loud. With a loudness decibel meter at 3 feet the Mustang 2 at a master volume dialed in at five is like 106 dB without any digital distortion. 106 dB is painfully loud and is about at the average human pain threshold.

I use the amp on like around 3 and mic it. Sounds beautiful, especially the Twin model my fav and I am a tube snob and have been for years and have owned many tube amps including the Fender Twin. I have five Fender amps currently and sometimes grin and giggle while playing the Mustang. :) :lol:

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Last edited by HIO on Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Underlying Fuzz Sound on Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 pm
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Alrighty...
Here's the lowdown.

Just got it home and plugged it in.
The "fizz" is much more minimal.
Even more minimal than typical pickup hum.

It also sounds way more snappy and responsive, probably due to the fact that I haven't broken the speakers in yet.
This is way more tolerable then the last amp!

Here's where it gets interesting...
Right away I noticed that the power cord was way shorter and much more heavy duty than the last power cable.
Although I don't know if the previous amps cable was swapped for another one while it was on the show room floor somewhere down the line.

Next thing I checked was the manufacturing date.
I was really disappointed to see that it was also manufactured on 122010 like the previous amp.
Oh well.

I still haven't updated the firmware yet.
Kind of hesitant, not sure if I can roll that back to the original firmware if the fizz happens to get excessive as a result of an update.
Any information on that from you guys would be great.

So that's it..those are the variables.
What that means exactly is anyone's guess.


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