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Post subject: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:39 pm
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I find myself weighing both of these amps.

I'm drawn to the MIII's power and versatility. And I'm drawn as well to the SCX2's tube engine and its own brand of versatility.

Does anyone out there own both? If you had to keep one, which would it be?

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:27 pm
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Both! Seriously They are two different creatures. The Mustang III is so versatile with it's great array of tones, not to mention a great tube like sound. I own many tube amps and never cared for solid state amps....till now. The Super Champ X2 has tones you come to expect from a tube amp but with the ability to modify modify tones via Fuse Software as well. That is why I still own both.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:55 am
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If you're only going to get one of these, I'd strongly recommend auditioning both before you buy. They both have good features and good sounds - but different sounds. Like you, I had both on my short list; playing through them both and listening to the sound difference is what cemented my choice (in my case, in favour of the Mustang). I can't think of any other sensible way for you to make the choice that's best for you other than trying them out.

But for completeness, my reasoning was:
- Mustang has wider range of sounds (including a good Champ sound) than the Champ
- Although the Champ is a valve/tube amp, I felt the Mustang's emulations of many valve amps covered more bases, more accurately, than the Champ
- The LCD screen and controls on the Mustang allow more effects / parameters to be setup and adjusted, more easily, on the amp itself without needing a PC/Fuse
- The Mustang cabinet / speaker has (to my ear) a fuller sound; the Champ is a bit boxy/tinny; this also I suspect helps the Mustang in its emulations of bigger amps


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:20 am
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Thanks. That helps.

So you don't miss the tubes at all when you play the MIII?


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:39 am
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Quote:
So you don't miss the tubes at all when you play the MIII?

(nb for accuracy M-IV in my case, but all the points are the same either way)

The need for a real valve/tube amp is very subjective and controversial, usually involving psychological biases little-related to objective sound quality (in addition obviously to sound/tone concerns too).

I'd quite a like a whole room full of interesting valve amps. I have neither the space nor money, and even if I did I don't spend enough time playing guitar to justify it. For me, the Mustang provides a wide range of sounds and effects in a single package, that are all "close enough" to the real thing - or even if not comparing to specific real amps, the Mustang provides a wide-enough range of great tones of itself, to cover all moods of music that I play.

So, sonically yes the Mustang does everything I need. Emotionally (and I concede irrationally), I'd still like a room full of valve amps...

It is very likely that for everyone else, the balance-point of whether the Mustang has the right sound for them will be different (I won't say better or worse, because there isn't an absolute scale; it's just what piece of equipment sounds right to each person).

Finally, I did also A-B the Mustang ("British 60s" amp model) against a VOX AC15. I liked the sound of the genuine VOX more - not massively; if they weren't side-by-side you probably wouldn't notice. But there was a noticeable difference. On the other hand, if I bought the VOX that's the only sound I'd have, compared to lots of different sounds (both amp models and effects) in the Mustang. Also the VOX cost quite a bit more and is a lot heavier! If I ever get good enough (don't hold your breath...) to play professionally and regularly to audiences, I'd buy the VOX (amongst others). The Mustang is plenty good enough for me to practise and improve with until then.


Last edited by scott-uk on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:03 am
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I agree 100% with Scott and for the same reasons I opted for the M3 in my case.

Additionally most of my "gigs" happen on my basement and given I like more or less crunchy sounds, driving an amp into saturation cranking up the volume will make my family very quickly sabotage my gigs...

...which brings me to my question about the Super Champ X2 (that I never played with): can you get overdriven sounds without cranking up the volume?

-if the answer is yes you can, that means the DSP is doing the crunch and NOT the SChamp tubes.. in which case it defeats the purpose of having a tube amp in the first place... as having tubes working linearly (not saturated) is no better than using a 100% solid state amp.

-if the answer is that you can not, and you need to crank up the volume to several watts to get dirty tones, this leaves the SChamp out of my league for the same reason all other tube amps are, namely that I can not raise the volume too loud on my day to day playing.

Honestly at this point, after playing the M3 for around a year, the only kind of tube amp I would ever build/buy would be a 1 or 2 watts amp (take a look at ax84.com they have very good examples) and frankly I'm not sure it is worth the effort and money to do so.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:53 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
So you don't miss the tubes at all when you play the MIII?

(nb for accuracy M-IV in my case, but all the points are the same either way)

The need for a real valve/tube amp is very subjective and controversial, usually involving psychological biases little-related to objective sound quality.


Thanks for the response. It's appreciated.


Last edited by InkStained on Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:55 am
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jedi2b wrote:
I agree 100% with Scott and for the same reasons I opted for the M3 in my case.
...which brings me to my question about the Super Champ X2 (that I never played with): can you get overdriven sounds without cranking up the volume?


I honestly don't know.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:59 am
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Hi InkStained,

It looks like you are getting some really good feedback here to your inquiry. I just wanted to chime in and let you know that we are happy to assist if we can as well before or after your purchase. Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:11 am
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Yeah, here's my question: Which is the better amp? :P

(Kidding, kidding.)

I play blues, some jazz, classic rock. They're both pretty compelling choices.

The "pros" with the MIII: Versatility, power, bigger speaker, slightly lower price.

The "pros" with the SCX2: Tube tone.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:35 am
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Depending on the way the champ works I have to disagree that you are going to get what you call "tube tone" any more than you will get from the Mustang.

-In both cases the tone you get is coming from a solid state DSP, not saturated tubes.
-This is a guess but, I think the champ actually never gets into saturated "tube tone" as this will destroy the coloration the DSP does to the sound

An actual owner of the champ would need to corroborate how actually the amp works, but in my head, having a tube amp with DSP is kind of a frankenstein setup. Sounds cool marketing wise but I'm not sure you get what you pay for (that is the "real" saturated tube tone)


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:50 am
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Regarding how real the tube tone on the mustangs is, this is an interesting poll:

-A/B comparisson of Mustang (300$) with Deluxe reverb reissue amp (1050$)
-same sound clip recorded on the two amps, you have to decide which one is the real deluxe
-52% says the real deluxe is the clip A
-47% says the real deluxe is the clip B

I will let you judge how real the tube tone is on the Mustangs :)

this is the link to the poll
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2891371-Deluxe-Reverb-Reissue-vs-Fender-Mustang-2-DR-model

By the way, in the end the amp that was voted the most to be the real Deluxe was in reality the Mustang LOL

So why is people still paying 1000$ or 2000$ for amps is beyond me.


Last edited by jedi2b on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:06 pm
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Hi InkStained (Guys),

The Fender SuperChamp X2 has a tube power section and a solid state pre-amp section. So, the two amps being discussed here are quite different. I imagine that this question will largely come down to a personal preference. Both have connectivity with Fender FUSE software as well. Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:17 pm
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jedi2b wrote:
Regarding how real the tube tone on the mustangs is, this is an interesting poll:

-A/B comparisson of Mustang (300$) with Deluxe reverb reissue amp (1050$)
-same sound clip recorded on the two amps, you have to decide which one is the real deluxe
-52% says the real deluxe is the clip A
-47% says the real deluxe is the clip B

I will let you judge how real the tube tone is on the Mustangs :)

this is the link to the poll
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2891371-Deluxe-Reverb-Reissue-vs-Fender-Mustang-2-DR-model

By the way, in the end the amp that was voted the most to be the real Deluxe was in reality the Mustang LOL

So why is people still paying 1000$ or 2000$ for amps is beyond me.


What an astounding clip. I preferred the sound of amp A, so I guessed that was the DRRI.

Amazing. :!:


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Post subject: Re: Anyone both a Mustang III and a Super Champ X2 combo?
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:52 am
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Quote:
Which is the better amp? ... I play blues, some jazz, classic rock. They're both pretty compelling choices ... The "pros" with the MIII: Versatility, power, bigger speaker, slightly lower price ... The "pros" with the SCX2: Tube tone.

Have you played through both and listened to the difference? Does the Champ's "tube tone" sound better in reality to your ears? Or is this a hypothetical "it has real tubes, therefore the tone must be better" question without having tried both amps?

If you haven't already, I really, really urge you to test both amps side-by-side so you can decide for yourself which has the right sound for you. That's the only way to answer your question on which amp's tone is going to work best for you. Comparing on-paper specs can get you as far as a shortlist, which you've done - let your ears make the final decision.

Or, if for some reason you can't do an A-B audition, then just buy the Mustang :) You won't be disappointed with the sound, and you'll love all the features. Or if you must have valves/tubes, buy the Champ, it's a great little amp and you won't be disappointed with that either!

The other factor of course is that 90% of the tone/quality of the sound comes from what your fingers do on the strings; the amp is very secondary. I listen to clips of people playing guitar through Mustangs that sound way, way better than anything I could ever do, even if I had the world's best-sounding valve amp...


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