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Post subject: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:34 pm
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I bought the Fender Mustang Floor the other day because I couldn't pass up the great deal at Guitar Center. I also ordered the EXP1 and the MS4 footswitch to go with it. One issue I notice with the EXP1 and the MS4 is that when you move the expression pedal and everything is quiet, you get this sort of electrical buzzing noise. Also, when you press a button on the MS4 you also get a quick buzz/click. I know the pedal and switch are digital, which makes sense since the pedal noise is constant when you move the pedal back and forth quickly, but are intermittent buzz/clicks, like the switch, when you just barely adjust it.

Doesn't seem to matter what output I have it hooked up to (headphones/amp). Only changes volume with output level changes on the back of the pedalboard, or on the amp. This does not happen with the pedalboard expression pedal itself. I have also tried every combination of cords connected to all equipment (like an instrument cable vs. the included non-shielded cable that comes with the EXP1 and MS4). I have no idea if it's there while playing, but I'd imagine that normal output would override this. The problem is, I want to use this for performance, and the noise output could be troublesome while changing levels between songs or when I'm setting up for my next part. Perhaps the same problem doesn't happen with the XLR outputs, but I can't test that at home.

I have noticed that a lot of noise comes from the power supply. I've tried putting it everywhere as far away from other equipment. It makes a lot of noise if you bump it or it moves while playing. I haven't heard anyone else mention this issue with the EXP1, so thought I'd bring it up. Maybe it's just my amp?

I made a recording of the noise. This hiss is 'normal', it's the buzz in the background. It's located here. Thanks for any help!

UPDATE: Seems it doesn't happen with headphones after all. I guess I was using the headphone output to the AUX IN on my Frontman 25R and it was still happening there. Seems to be a grounding issue. Anybody have issues with ground? I'd imagine XLR WOULD be the best output, or a direct box. Hmm. (I will also add that I like the AUX IN on the Frontman from this pedal, because it seems to bypass the pre-amp, so no effects or changes from the low/mid/high adjustments. Seems "cleaner")

UPDATE 2: See reply below


Last edited by dhelfinstine on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:30 pm
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Fixed the problem. No one else has ever had this issue? Turns out I have a really noisy ground, and EMI was leaking into the floor's transformer over ground. Disconnect ground (using a 3 prong->2 prong adapter, leaving ground disconnected) and everything sounds spectacular! Not a permanent solution, but from everything I've read online, unless the transformer decides to give me a 120VAC jolt, I'm OK. Any recommendations on a good power conditioner that doesn't cost more than the board itself?


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:58 pm
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Hi dhelfinstine,

Are you using the balanced (XLR) outputs on your Mustang Floor? And did you try the ground lift switch on the unit as well? If you do have a ground issue somewhere in your setup, it would be advisable to that or use a safer method to resolve the issue/ground noise. Please let us know if we can assist in any way. Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:13 pm
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I tried a balanced (xlr) to unbalanced (ts) to my amp, and it didn't help. Doing a ground life made a horrible noise. My best setup so far is to drop the ground from the pedal ac adapter, and ground everything else. No noise from the exp1 or ms4. Otherwise, it is always there. The digital noise from the pedal/switch seem to go through ground to my amp. I tried special power cleaners, to no avail, special cords, which made it worse. I am sure it is through ground, because the same noise does not come through headphones with the amp off. My sound is actually better with the ground off too. I've looked for other AC adapters that might work, but I can't find one similar enough to want to try with it. My old DOD VGS50 has no noise, no ground loops...but it doesn't have a grounded AC adapter. It makes horrible noise if I connect it with the effects loop on the fender floor, though. Presumably from the amp, again, because headphones sound fine. Amp problem? If that, then my Fender Frontman 25R is the problem. Used to be a champ 110, but it died for no apparent reason (same basic amp).


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:43 pm
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Hi dhelfinstine,

Thanks for the update here. Have you tried to connect your rig in a different part of the building or in a different location all together? This may be a good way of narrowing down where the ground is originating. And as you mentioned, if you have the option of powering any of the pieces without AC power, this cuts down on possible ground issues. Please check out the location thing, and see if that makes any difference. In some cases, other appliances or items connected to the same circuit can cause issues. Let me know how it goes. Thanks.

Cheers,

Alan

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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:26 pm
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I found a REAL solution. The EBTech HumX. I plugged it in instead of my ground adapter, and the noise was gone! Very pleased, although a bit of an expensive solution. I'm still not sure why this is happening, but I'm satisfied with the solution.


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:11 am
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Hmmm, I'm firmly of the opinion that audio equipment should, as standard, include sufficient mains power isolation to ensure it is unaffected by ground loops, hum, whatever. One shouldn't need to go and buy additional/expensive kit just to get things to work.

I have many audio/hi-fi components, all connected together, none of which ever have any problems. They're not particualrly high-end or expensive, so the necessary isolation can't be that costly or difficult to include. Why is it that musical instrument electrical equipment can't do the same?

(That's not a rant - I'm genuinely curious, if anyone knows and can explain, why amplifiers, effects, etc, from all manufacturers, seem to suffer from this sort of problem far more than other similarly-priced audio equipment.)


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:31 am
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+1 on the HumX, use one ever gig and at home.


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:49 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Hmmm, I'm firmly of the opinion that audio equipment should, as standard, include sufficient mains power isolation to ensure it is unaffected by ground loops, hum, whatever. One shouldn't need to go and buy additional/expensive kit just to get things to work.

I have many audio/hi-fi components, all connected together, none of which ever have any problems. They're not particualrly high-end or expensive, so the necessary isolation can't be that costly or difficult to include. Why is it that musical instrument electrical equipment can't do the same?

(That's not a rant - I'm genuinely curious, if anyone knows and can explain, why amplifiers, effects, etc, from all manufacturers, seem to suffer from this sort of problem far more than other similarly-priced audio equipment.)


Good question. I wonder the same. I have been an audio engineer, and don't remember having the same problems. Of course, maybe the musicians I worked with fixed their problems themselves. I have a fender guitar/floor/amp and I have to buy a 3rd party part to fix a problem that isn't really even 'there'. No real ground loop, just when moving digital external parts (MS4 or EXP1), so not sure if cable was acting as an antenna or what. I still expect that the Mustang Floor is not grounded 'properly'. My old VGS50 (DOD) pedal has no ground noise.

On a new note, the EXP-1 causes my whole rig to go silent until I 1) change presets to another, or 2) change some setting on the current preset. I have the EXP-1 to control volume, so the built-in can control modulation or whatever it is set to by pedal. New post perhaps....


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Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Floor + EXP1 pedal noise
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:23 am
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for your input here. And we are happy to assist in any way we can. With that said, grounding electronic equipment and noise/ground loops, etc. occurring in interconnected equipment is quite common. This is particularly true when connecting unbalanced cables/sources.

You can use third party gear to help reduce or eliminate issues like these. But in many cases, doing the troubleshooting to narrow down the specific source or sources of the issue can be effective. There is a good variety of information online pertaining to this topic as well. And again, we are happy to assist as related to the products we sell and support. Please let us know if we can help.

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