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Post subject: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:31 am
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hi I have a Mustang II and a 30 year old Ibanez with humbuckers, which all sounds great

Would I get a lot more tones if I tried a Tele or Strat style guitar with single coils, using the Mustang amp?

I guess what I want to know is, with modelling amps can you do so much more with the settings, that the actual guitar type is less of a factor in getting sounds, than with a traditional amp?
So should I spend money on a SS type guitar?
(Now I am getting used to the amp it's G.A.S time !)


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:10 am
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My personal opinion is that the answer is both yes and no.

The amp has so many options that you can dial-in pretty much any tone you want. So if you only have one guitar, you'll be able to get a good sound without worrying too much about pickup types, etc.

On the other hand, single-coil and double-coil pickups do sound different (in general), and that difference is clearly audible through the Mustang amp. So the Mustang does preserve the guitar's own tone, as well as providing its own effects.

So, if you particularly want a single-coil sound, then yes having a guitar with those pickups will be better. (Or another option, which fwiw is what I have, is humbuckers with a coil-tap switch to give you both single- and double-coil options in one guitar).


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:15 pm
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Well I happen to have a guitar HSS (start lonestar) and I can't frankly get a HB sound from a SC (HB signal has a lot more harmonics)
The other way around, with a lot of work you may be able to weaken the HB signal to sound like a cheap SC but I don't think the result would be great either.


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:23 am
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Quote:
I can't frankly get a HB sound from a SC

I'd agree with that. I wasn't suggesting otherwise, sorry if anything in my post suggested I was.

Quote:
you may be able to weaken the HB signal to sound like a cheap SC

I don't this will work; it will just sound like a quiet HB. The best way to make an HB sound like an SC is to coil-tap it so you're only using one of its coils. I'm sure it won't be exactly the same as an SC, but as close as you can get without a genuine SC.


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:01 am
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I agree coil tap would make it work (depending on the impedance of the pickup and other factors as where is the pickup positioned on the guitar) but it requires guitar surgery :)

My digitech pedal has a HB-SC and SC-HB emulation but it does not sound like the real thing either.

If you can, get an HSS guitar and you got the best of both worlds. After I got mine, i never picked up my epiphone again :)


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:56 pm
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I love Mustangs and single coils. Yes, IMHO you will get a whole new sound palette that will make a wonderful addition to your Humbucker sounds.

In fact, this is a timely topic for me. I have had a Mustang for a couple years now. I love it. But have primarily been using my Strats (SSS) and Tele on it. So, I have developed a whole amp full of my own favorite presets for those two instruments.

Just a few minutes ago, I was playing one of my other guitars that is equipped with two Humbuckers pulled from old Les Pauls in the 70s. Neck is a PAF and the bridge is a mini Humbucker. I found that all of my favorite SSS presets produced totally different sounds with the Humbuckers. In fact, there are only a couple of the SSS presets that really make the HH sing - and do they ever! The rest of the presets I would not use for a Humbucker, without first going back and tweaking them a bit. So I guess I will create both SC and HB collections.

But that's what's so great about Mustang and Fuse. You can take any of the amp models and tweak them to fit ANY guitar you own. Can't beat that with a stick! But, yes, the pickups do play a significant role in the sound you will get, even with the amp modelling.

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:59 am
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thanks guys - very useful to know especially Doc Waters observations.. guess I might have to get that second guitar


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:58 pm
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I think fender should have put a pickup simulator in all of the mustangs,it does make a difference making a humbucker sound like a single coil and visa versa if the pickup modeling is done right.

I still use the pickup simulator in my boss GT-3 that i bought in 1999 and it does a very good job with it's pickup simulation,i have many different guitars with humbuckers,single coil and guitars with a combination of both types of pickups but for anyone that has a guitar with only humbuckers or single coil pickups a pickup simulator would be a great effect to have.


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 pm
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markcc wrote:
hi I have a Mustang II and a 30 year old Ibanez with humbuckers, which all sounds great

Would I get a lot more tones if I tried a Tele or Strat style guitar with single coils, using the Mustang amp?

I guess what I want to know is, with modelling amps can you do so much more with the settings, that the actual guitar type is less of a factor in getting sounds, than with a traditional amp?
So should I spend money on a SS type guitar?
(Now I am getting used to the amp it's G.A.S time !)


The short answer is your ibanez is perfect for the mustang..... a single coil guitar will only sound thinner on a little solid state amp....just keep playing that set up....worry about a single coil guitar once you buy a amp that actually makes the sounds the mustang is trying to replicate....

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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:30 pm
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Quote:
The short answer is your ibanez is perfect for the mustang..... a single coil guitar will only sound thinner on a little solid state amp....just keep playing that set up....worry about a single coil guitar once you buy a amp that actually makes the sounds the mustang is trying to replicate....


I agree - the Ibanez is perfect for the Mustang.

However, you are implying that only a tube amp can make a single coil sound good. Tube amp and solid state have different sounds, true, BUT I would like to say to markcc, that IMHO the Mustang does a wonderful job on single coils. AND a wonderful job on Humbuckers, too.

Trying to make HB's sound like a SC's, or vice versa, while fun, will never result in quite the same sound as starting with the original sound source from each of these two amazing pickup styles.

I would say, if you want to add the SC sound to your Mustang, and you can afford it, take the plunge. Some excellent Strats and Teles, that carry the Fender and Squier brands, are available these days at very affordable prices. And, while both Strat's and Tele's use SC's, both have totally different sounds - frankly, I couldn't imagine life without owning both. You can find some used ones for under $100. You can even upgrade SC pickup sets to custom hand wounds pups for $100 or less. Let me know if you would like some suggestions. One can never have too many guitars. Unless of course, you ask my wife. LOL.

Meanwhile, enjoy the great sounds of those 30 year old buckers on your Ibanez!

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:47 pm
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Metalman50 wrote:
I think fender should have put a pickup simulator in all of the mustangs...


Yes. And while we're at it, I think Fender should have included a feature where the amp holds my gum while I'm singing.

Oh, and also can we get the amp to load and move itself around so I don't have to carry it?

Oh, and can we also get the amp to program itself with the tones I want and **** everyone else's tastes...

Can I get the Mustang to play my guitar too, so I don't have to do that either?

And yeah, I don't want to spent any more than the measley $200 I spent for it. No no, I want all of the pie, but I want it free...

:evil:

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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:37 pm
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LOL never occured to me the amp could have legs and follow me around but is a great idea

I think the Mustangs are good as they are, no changes to the amp itself are required IMHO

In the other hand I think fuse could have some more features, and many Fender amps down the road that are going to use Fuse will benefit too, so probably make more sense if Fender spends more time working on Fuse, here are some simple ideas:

-add a looper functionnality to Fuse: it already has the playback function, it only requires to be able to record and loop, and you could save me from buying a Jaman Solo! (I could do this with Mobius for free but I would like to have only one software to deal with)

-Add stomp and effect templates to Fuse: so I can create a TScreamer or DS-1 template and don't need to reconfigure the effects from scratch every time I create a preset

-Add the possibility to slow down tracks for practicing without modifying the pitch, as many looper pedals allow

right now Fuse is little more than a pretty interface for the Mustangs, I think a lot more could be done, and Fender would be the first to benefit from it as they can reuse the software for upcoming amps.


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:52 pm
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FFXIhealer

Is asking for a pickup simulator really too much to ask for from fender to put in a future version of the mustang?

Boss,digitech and zoom had this feature in there guitar modeling processors for years and fender could have dropped one of there less desired effects in the mustang and could have put in the pickup simulator and also a acoustic simulator.


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:38 am
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As thread starter I think a coil simulator is a very good idea
(@FFxi you must have had a bad day!)

- of course it may be a pain to implement as I guess you'd to specify if your input sound was neck, bridge or both.. and then if HBs were the source, you could choose if output sim was Tele or Strat (plus the boutique coils)

And SC > HB would have its own issues with middle coil, out of phase combos etc etc

But seems like a great idea as a stomp box tool

FWIW: I don't think there's enough memory for a looper - you can only set delay to 1 second so I think looper would be limited to a 1 second phrase - I wonder when Mustang Plus series will be out?!


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Post subject: Re: Guitars with different pickup types ? SS v HH
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:28 pm
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Hey Markcc,

when talking about a looper,I was referring to fuse acting as the looper and not the mustang itself. Using Fuse, looping time will be limited to your harddisk space, so your fingers will fall off playing before your run out of space. The only part of the amp that would be involved would be the pedal switches that come with the mustang.

Regarding the SC-HB and HB-SC emulator, I have a Digitech pedal that is supossed to do that and sounds terrible.

In the other hand, I think you could configure the Mustang to more or less emulate a HB with a SC. I just tried this experiment and it works more or less convingingly:
-Select on your mods the Step Filter
-Level 10
-Rate 0.08 hz
-Play with the resonance, lowq and highq values. high values for all three of them seem to work best.

To emulate a SC with a HB, i would say the best way to go would be to play with the tone controls on the amp. To make my bridge HB sound like a neck SC this is what I do:
-for any particular preset, lower the mids by 6 points
-lower the treble by 3 points
-Voila! instant SC

but in both cases I still prefer the real pickups :)


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