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Post subject: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:06 pm
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Hi,

I'm close to buying a Mustang III. The features are amazing.

However for the icing on the cake, I'd like to use the internal speaker to monitor for the band, while running the headphone socket to the FOH PA.

Is there some way to leave the speaker active while using the headphone socket?

Thanks,
Stephen


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:03 pm
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stephenbgood wrote:
Hi,

I'm close to buying a Mustang III. The features are amazing.

However for the icing on the cake, I'd like to use the internal speaker to monitor for the band, while running the headphone socket to the FOH PA.

Is there some way to leave the speaker active while using the headphone socket?

Thanks,
Stephen


No, it can't be done with the headphone, which mutes the speaker, but an alternative is to use the send (of the effects loop) instead, which will allow you to use the MIII as your monitor.

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:22 am
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PITA is dead on.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:45 pm
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Well thanks for the advice.

I'm still a little concerned that the fully processed sounds will be available to pass from the EffectsSend to the PA.
However I now have my amp, so I'll just have to go and try it!

Thanks again,
Stephen


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:22 am
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Hi,

there is another thread that goes into some pretty good details on applying this method, similar situation to what you are looking to do. Check it out.


viewtopic.php?f=27&t=74480


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:37 pm
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OK, I've tried out the suggestion thus:
EffectsSend -> DI-box -> Mixer -> FOH.
It does work and it sounds quite good.
The signal out of the EffectsSend is a good strength for use with a DI.
(It seems our FOH speakers can't handle loud distortion.)

The volume is determined by the selected amp type and volume.
The MasterVolume controls only the internal speaker or headphones.

So it is quite useable, though I'll need to adjust my presets to level out their volumes.

Thanks for your help folks.

PS. A Maton acoustic/electric into the Mustang III on a clean Princeton setting sounds just incredible.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:33 am
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I will have to check this out, so the fx send has the same processing as the headphone jack!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:22 am
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I tried using the send straight to my PA, what I found is the Speaker cab sim is not there so all you get is the amp model with no speaker emulation which does not sound good, if I put a dummy plug into the headphone jack it cuts out the speaker but the cab sim does go to the Send.

In a live situation this would not work for me, I mic my amp anyway but would have been nice if the send worked with cab sim and with out cutting the speaker out!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:47 am
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It would be good to get an informed comment from Fender to clarify this.

Wanting both foldback and FOH is surely not uncommon.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:05 am
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Quote:
send straight to my PA, what I found is the Speaker cab sim is not there ... if I put a dummy plug into the headphone jack it cuts out the speaker but the cab sim does go to the Send.

This surprises / confuses me. The cab sim is part of the digital processing - ie it comes before any of: fx send, power amp or headphone socket. Also, there's only one output from the digital processing to all three of these analogue parts - so there's no way to get a different signal at the fx send than at the power amp, for example (as long as nothing's plugged into the fx return).

The cab sim is definitely applied to the signal regardless of whether there's anything in the headphone socket. You can hear the differences in the different cab selections clearly through the internal speaker(s).

Therefore, the same should be true of the fx send - the cab sim should always be there - because the physical wiring of the amp means it can't be anything else.

So here's a test, I'm curious to know what happens: if you have nothing in the headphone socket, and the fx send going to your PA/monitor, then if you just change the cab sim parameter on the current preset, do you hear any change in sound through your amp speaker? Do you hear the same change in sound through the PA? If you now unplug the fx send and just listen to the internal speaker, do you hear any difference when you change the cab sim parameter?

If your answer to this last question is 'no' then your amp is behaving differently to mine. If the answer to the last question is 'yes' but the previous questions is 'no' then it would appear that merely plugging something into the fx send changes the amp's behaviour.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:51 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Quote:
send straight to my PA, what I found is the Speaker cab sim is not there ... if I put a dummy plug into the headphone jack it cuts out the speaker but the cab sim does go to the Send.

This surprises / confuses me. The cab sim is part of the digital processing - ie it comes before any of: fx send, power amp or headphone socket. Also, there's only one output from the digital processing to all three of these analogue parts - so there's no way to get a different signal at the fx send than at the power amp, for example (as long as nothing's plugged into the fx return).

The cab sim is definitely applied to the signal regardless of whether there's anything in the headphone socket. You can hear the differences in the different cab selections clearly through the internal speaker(s).

Therefore, the same should be true of the fx send - the cab sim should always be there - because the physical wiring of the amp means it can't be anything else.

So here's a test, I'm curious to know what happens: if you have nothing in the headphone socket, and the fx send going to your PA/monitor, then if you just change the cab sim parameter on the current preset, do you hear any change in sound through your amp speaker? Do you hear the same change in sound through the PA? If you now unplug the fx send and just listen to the internal speaker, do you hear any difference when you change the cab sim parameter?

If your answer to this last question is 'no' then your amp is behaving differently to mine. If the answer to the last question is 'yes' but the previous questions is 'no' then it would appear that merely plugging something into the fx send changes the amp's behaviour.



I could do that test and let you know, but the send straight in sounds like $@!... kind of like going into a distortion pedal and right into a mixer. It sounds like the FX send is before the cab sim processing, once I plug in a dummy plug into the head phone jack it sounds the way it should its very similar to the actual speakers!


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:33 pm
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For my own curiosity, I did the tests myself on my own amp (Mustang IV rather than MIII, but hopefully that shouldn't make a difference). In summary, the cab simulation is present and working on the fx-send, in all configurations. However, I have an idea what your problem may be based on your comment: "the send straight in sounds like ... going into a distortion pedal." In detail:

1. Amp only, nothing connected to fx-send or headphones
Cab sims are working. To verify: on any preset (maybe a reasonably clean one), in the 'amp' settings get the data wheel to control the 'CAB' parameter - as I turn it, I can clearly hear the differences of the various cabs.

2. Amp with a monitor connected to fx-send
Listening through the amp's speaker, the cab sims are working, exactly as above.
Listening through the monitor, exactly the same: the cab sims are working

3. Amp with a monitor connected to fx-send and a dummy plug in the headphones socket.
Obviously the amp speaker is now muted.
Listening through the monitor, the cab sims are working.

So the cab sims are always working, and present on the fx-send signal, regardless of whether anything's plugged into the headphones socket.

However, I noticed that in (3) above the signal level going to fx-send is lower than in (2) above. That probably shouldn't happen, but it is: plugging something into the headphones socket, attenuates the signal going to fx-send.

That may explain your problem. Perhaps the signal level in (2) above (which is your preferred setup) is too high for the input to your PA, and is causing distortion. The attenuated signal in (3) may be at a better level for your PA input. Just a thought; that may not be the issue, but it would appear (assuming your amp behaves the same as mine - if it doesn't that would be interesting) that the problem is nothing to do with cab sims.

Some amps let you set the output level of their fx loops (either a dial or a switch for "instrument level" vs "domestic line level" vs "professional line level"). I don't think the Mustang amps have such a control - at least I haven't found one. Maybe your PA has a control for its input sensitivity (ie so it can accept a higher level without distorting), or you could put an attenuator (ie volume control!) inline between the fx send and PA.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:52 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
So the cab sims are always working, and present on the fx-send signal, regardless of whether anything's plugged into the headphones socket.

I reckon Scott is probably right because:
1. Cab sim seemed to work from fx-Send for me also, on Mustang III.
2. I used a DI-Box and Mixer to control the levels being sent to the PA. Without that, if the signal was too strong, you would get distortion like JLG described. The levels tend to vary a lot with the different presets, as I mentioned previously.
3. I'm an optimist.

However the stereo capabilities of Scott's Mustang IV might introduce complications that I prefer not to have to understand.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III Speaker and headphones at same time?
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:26 am
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not sure whats going on but do know the FX send does not sound good straight into the mixer without having a dummy plug into the headphone jack, the signal I was sending to the mixer was fine it was not overloading the input the distortion I mentioned was from the Brit 80 s model but sounded like the cab sim was not there it had a lot of treble to it....doesn't really matter to me I like using a mic on my amp for gigs I just know that the fx send is not usable for how I would want to use it.


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