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Post subject: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:00 pm
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Hi all,
I'm planning to upgrade from my Mustang II to the IV, I've read that is 2x12" stereo (and for registering purpose should be a better choice) but I've got a couple of questions:

Are its right and left channel indipendent from each other? If so, how can I get a stereo effect if there'a only one 1/4" input jack, without usong the fx loop send/return?

The last one and I'm done: I've got a line 6 fm4 and dl4 in the very last position in my pedalboard chain, both are supposed to be stereo pedals (got left/right inputs and outputs). How can I plug them into this amp in order to obtain stereo?

Thanks guys :)


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:51 pm
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Hi Dariet89,

So, the Fender Mustang IV is a stereo amp. It takes your guitar input (mono) and internally the signal is processed as a stereo signal and is output through the speakers, headphones and USB outputs in stereo. Additionally, you have a stereo effects send/return. So, your stereo pedals can be run in stereo. Please let us know we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:28 am
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Hi, thansk for the reply.

The mono input to stereo processing part is now clear.
I'd pefer not to run pedals in the loop, because if I'm not wrong (and I can be) the loop is placed after all preamp's controls except for the master, isn't it? So after the reverb too. Doing so I'll get something like this: pedalboard -> tone knobs -> amp's reverb -> filter modeler into delay -> speakers

In my chain, the signal comes from mono effects into a stereo chorus pedal (one input and one output, I think it processes the signal in a similar way as the mustang does); what if I use two Y stereo cables? The first to connect the chorus output to the left and right inputs of the fm4, patches to the dl4 inputs, and the second Y cable from the outputs to the amp input.
In this (theorical) way, the signal could already be splitted to be processed in stereo by the pedals, right?

I hope I didn't make confusion :)


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:49 am
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Quote:
and the second Y cable from the outputs to the amp input


I think you're saying that you'd take the stereo output from the pedal, and merge it with a Y cable back to the mono input to the amp?

If that's what you mean, that that's going to lose the stereo-ness of your pedals. Also, a Y-cable isn't really a good way to mix two audio signals; it works in a rudimentary way but isn't going to give the best or most accurate reproduction of the original signals.


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:23 am
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So the best and unique way to have stereo from such pedals is to run their outputs into two separate amps?
Now I'm a little confused.. how can the mustang IV reproduce different sounds on each speaker taking just a mono input? I mean, without using eventual stereo effects that come with its presets. I just thought it could take in input both mono and stereo jack due to the fact it has only one input jack.
Maybe I'm just missing some basic concept, but I don't know how can I plug/setup pedals into that amp in order to take advantage of stereo.


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:31 am
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Dariet89 wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing some basic concept, but I don't know how can I plug/setup pedals into that amp in order to take advantage of stereo.

Fender TSL wrote:
....you have a stereo effects send/return. So, your stereo pedals can be run in stereo.


I believe this is the only way to run external pedals in stereo

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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:50 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Fender TSL wrote:
....you have a stereo effects send/return. So, your stereo pedals can be run in stereo.


I believe this is the only way to run external pedals in stereo


I would, if someone assure me that reverb is placed after the fx loop, because I don'want to delay the reverbered signal, but to reverb the delayed signal. Anyway, I would have the same problem with my stereo chorus, indeed it has just one output (it's the ARTEC analog stereo chorus custom series).

In the case someone is wondering, I feel great with mustang II, I like having more amp models to deal with to create different sounds, and at the same time I like modelling my tone with stomp boxes 'cause I find them more "real" (the ones on fender fuse are good too, don't misunderstand). And since some of my pedals can be run in stereo I wished the IV could do the job.
On the net they say that to achive stereo sounds you've got to setup the rig with two amps :(


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:03 pm
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Quote:
if someone assure me that reverb is placed after the fx loop

Reverb, and all other effects built-in to the Mustang, come before the fx loop. You can't change the position of the fx loop in the signal chain. There are some multi-fx units out there that do let you do what you want, but they cost more... (and part of the reason for that is that they need an additional set of d-to-a and a-to-d converters; the Mustang is a set of decisions/compromises for a particular price)

Quote:
how can the mustang IV reproduce different sounds on each speaker taking just a mono input?

The Mustang IV has a mono input that is intended to come direct from a guitar. Some of the Mustang's built-in effects are stereo, that is internally the amplifier splits the mono input into separate stereo channels. So the stereo part starts inside the amp, it doesn't come from the input. That stereo signal is then preserved through the stereo fx loop on the M IV. Oh, and a stereo input on the aux-in is also preserved - but the aux-in signal isn't passed through the fx loop, before you think of trying that! :)

Quote:
my stereo chorus, indeed it has just one output

If your chorus pedal really is stereo, and only has one output socket, then that socket will be a stereo rather than mono socket. That is, it should take a TRS plug (a plug with three separate contacts: tip, ring and sleeve). Do not confuse this with the single input socket of the Mustang amp, which takes a mono TS plug. If you connect a stereo TRS plug to the input of a Mustang, it might initially sound like things are working, but you'll only be getting one channel of the input stereo signal; the other channel is ignored (ie not connected to anything).

NB Some equipment does stereo with a single TRS socket. Some equipment does stereo with two (mono) TS sockets. Unless the sockets are labelled and/or you have documentation, wiring diagram, etc, there's no easy way to tell (without dismantling!) whether a single jack socket is TRS stereo or TS mono. Yes it is confusing and frustrating.

Quote:
So the best and unique way to have stereo from such pedals is to run their outputs into two separate amps?

Quite probably yes. There are very few guitar amps with stereo inputs and two complete separate stereo channels end-to-end. The reason being that two speakers in a single cabinet doesn't give a very good stereo image, so why bother. People who want stereo will have some sort of stereo PA, or stereo mixer into recording equipment, computer, etc, rather than "just" an amp. Or they will be, as you suggest, using two separate amps: that's more versatile than putting two whole amps in one box (which is what a stereo guitar amp effectively would be).

I suppose the obvious question is: how are you using the stereo effect of your pedals at the moment? Do you currently have a full stereo amp (if so, which one, I'm genuinely curious as I looked myself recently and couldn't find anything, at least at a sensible price)? Or do you use two mono amps?

And another question: if I read your post correctly, the two pedals you want to connect are a chorus and a delay. These are two effects already built-in to the Mustang. Could you not just use those built-in effects rather than your separate pedals? They may not be the identical effect to your pedals, but they have lots of editable parameters plus a few varieties of each type of effect, so you could probably get "close enough." One of the key points of the Mustang is that it includes all this stuff to stop people needing a pedal board as well. Note you can change the order of all the effects in the chain inside the Mustang, using FUSE.


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:54 pm
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Quote:
There are very few guitar amps with stereo inputs and two complete separate stereo channels end-to-end. The reason being that two speakers in a single cabinet doesn't give a very good stereo image, so why bother. People who want stereo will have some sort of stereo PA, or stereo mixer into recording equipment, computer, etc, rather than "just" an amp. Or they will be, as you suggest, using two separate amps: that's more versatile than putting two whole amps in one box (which is what a stereo guitar amp effectively would be).

I used to achieve this easily with rack gear. A stereo preamp, a stereo effects rack, and a power amp with 2 channels. The stereo effects go into the stereo effects loop on the preamp. Channel 1 on the power amp is for left side signal, and connects to a single cabinet. Channel 2 is for right side signal and also connects to a single cabinet. Use a long speaker cable to put one of your cabinets on the opposite side of the stage.

To be honest, having 'been there', it's pretty useless in a live situation. Only people who are in the center of the room will hear the effect, ya know?

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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:53 am
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Quote:
Quote:
very few guitar amps with stereo inputs and two complete separate stereo channels end-to-end
achieve this easily with rack gear

I'm sure there is plenty of rack kit to do this, amongst many other options, and yes your rig sounds a good solution. I was thinking specifically of the world of combo amps and heads/cabs for my comments. But we agree on the main point: the two cabs need to be separated, hence why no-one bothers making a combo amp etc for this. Also that stereo makes most sense for recording rather than live use - unless of course you notice that your entire audience are fighting to stand right in the centre to appreciate your super-cool stereo effects :)


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am
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Thanks to everyone for have cleared my ideas on stereo, as I previuosly said I was missing something or getting it in a wrong way! Since it's pretty useless having stereo in a live situation, in registration I can always get it through computer (ie Amplitube).

@scott-uk: at the moment I don't use my pedals in stereo, I've got the Mustang II and another smaller 15W amp but I've never tried to run both at the same time. In thruth, I was looking to upgrade the Mustang and since I saw that the IV was labelled as stereo I thought that could be the chance to try pedals in stereo mode :) For the other question, I've got one pedal (Artec stereo chorus) with a stereo output socket (thank you again for this new info), after I currently run a Line 6 FM4 (filter modeler, with two mono L/R inputs and two mono outputs) and again a Line 6 DL4 digital delay (same as the FM4 in/out, modded to don't suck my tone). Each of the last two pedals can be set in 16 different effects (though some of which almost unusable) that cannot be achived with the built in effects of the Mustang, and even if I can get close to some of them, they will always sound different to my ears :) you know, I like having the possibility to "change" amp, and so tone does, and sometime I also use effects from FUSE (reverb for example, I find its ones powerfull) but there aren't built in effects that can substitute my pedalboard; but that's just me, little-boxes addicted, someone else can prefer other things!

Anyway, thanks again, I think that if I would try some stereo I'll keep the Mustang II and run them at the same time, maybe mixing the things up, one clean and the other distorted or something like that! Any ideas? :D


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Post subject: Re: Info about Mustang IV stereo
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:48 am
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Hi Dariet89,

That is an interesting idea. But, I would suggest that if you want to run an actual stereo guitar rig, you may still want to consider getting the Fender Mustang IV amp. It is a stereo amp with the stereo effects loop. This would be an ideal way to utilize your stereo effects in stereo. Please let us know if we can assist further.

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