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Post subject: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:58 am
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Hello,

I'm using the Mustang Floor as an effects only unit into the send/return of my amps. While using the tuner, the guitar is still audible.

Is there a way to enable the tuner to mute the output to allow for silent tuning?

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:42 am
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I may be wrong, but I thought the M Floor would mute the signal (like the M amps do) in 'tuner' mode.

What may help in diagnosing this is if you can give a full, precise description of the full signal chain - exactly what is connected to what, using which sockets.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:56 am
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Sure Scott! Thanks

It's a straight forward set-up... M Floor Guitar Input going to the Send and the M Floor Output (Right side) going to the Return of a Mesa/Boogie Mark V or a Blackstar HT-60.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:02 pm
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I'm sitting here in front of my new Mustang Floor and the signal is muted in tuner mode. Can't hear a thing, and I'm using both a 1/4" out and an XLR out at the same time.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:25 pm
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Thanks DapperDan7.... I figured that that was such a commonly useful feature that perhaps I'm doing something wrong or something is haywire... perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I'm plugged from the guitar directly into the amp's input and the Effects unit is going into the amp's effects loop. The effects are certainly muted, but I get dry tone from the amp. This isn't something that has happened with other multi-effects that I've owned.

I'll investigate further!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:26 pm
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gemari77 wrote:
Sure Scott! Thanks

It's a straight forward set-up... M Floor Guitar Input going to the Send and the M Floor Output (Right side) going to the Return of a Mesa/Boogie Mark V or a Blackstar HT-60.


guitar input going to the send?

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:13 pm
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mhowell wrote:
gemari77 wrote:
Sure Scott! Thanks

It's a straight forward set-up... M Floor Guitar Input going to the Send and the M Floor Output (Right side) going to the Return of a Mesa/Boogie Mark V or a Blackstar HT-60.


guitar input going to the send?



Right... Guitar into the front input of the amp... the effects unit input going to the send of the amp (or send going to the effect input...however you want to say it)and the effects unit output going to the return.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:23 pm
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Hmmm, one thought: do your amps have a 'series' or 'parallel' effects loop?

If the amps have a 'parallel' effects loop, then the signal from your guitar will always be going straight to the power amp / speaker, as well as via the fx loop (the return from the fx loop being mixed at the power amp with the straight-through signal). So muting the M Floor in the fx loop (by putting it in tuner mode) would just give you the 'dry' amp sound, as you report, as you aren't doing anything to cut the straight-through signal.

You need an amp with a series fx loop to achieve what you want. Some amps have a switch to select either series or parallel for their fx loops.

Here's a test: connect up your kit like this: Guitar -> M Floor input and M Floor output -> amp's guitar input. Nothing connected to the fx loop sockets. So you have the M Floor connected like a stomp box before the amp.

Play guitar, to check sound comes through amp speaker properly. Now try using the M Floor's tuner. If the signal is now muted, then the M Floor is working properly.

Here's another test: disconnect everything from the fx loop sockets on your amp. Leave guitar connected to amp input, and play it. Sounds comes through amp speaker (obviously!). Now connect a jack plug to the fx return of the amp. Connect nothing to the fx send, and connect nothing to the other end of the lead you've plugged into the fx return. Continue playing. Does the guitar still sound through the amp speaker? If yes, you (probably) have a parallel fx loop and the first paragraph above explains what's going on. If no, you have a series fx loop and the paragraph below may apply.

Another thought: if your amp has a 'series' effects loop, then there's usually a switch inside the 'return' socket of the fx loop. Only when a jack plug is fully inserted into that, will the amp's own signal path be broken. Possibly your plug in that socket is a bit loose and not actuating that switch, or maybe that switch is broken.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:48 pm
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scott-uk wrote:
Hmmm, one thought: do your amps have a 'series' or 'parallel' effects loop?


This was my first thought too.

Quote:
Now connect a jack plug to the fx return of the amp. Connect nothing to the fx send, and connect nothing to the other end of the lead you've plugged into the fx return. Continue playing. Does the guitar still sound through the amp speaker? If yes, you (probably) have a parallel fx loop and the first paragraph above explains what's going on. If no, you have a series fx loop and the paragraph below may apply.

Another thought: if your amp has a 'series' effects loop, then there's usually a switch inside the 'return' socket of the fx loop. Only when a jack plug is fully inserted into that, will the amp's own signal path be broken. Possibly your plug in that socket is a bit loose and not actuating that switch, or maybe that switch is broken.


The only thing I'd add to the diagnostic sequence is that I think I've heard somewhere that some amps are switched in the 'send' jack, instead of the 'return', so you may want to try both (or RTFM, Google, ...)

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:50 am
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Thanks for the help folks... My gear is currently in transit to the next show, so I won't be able to do the diagnostics until I hit soundcheck on Friday. I will definately check in and update.

The Mesa/Boogie Mark V and Blackstar HT-60 effects loops are "series".

Just a slight comparison with another product that's on the market... For almost a year, I've been using a Line 6 Pod HD 500 for effects into the loops of my amps. I decided to try the Fender Mustang Floor as a back-up or device for my B rig---the price was just too good for what was being offered.

I ended up really, really liking the effects in the Mustang Floor (delays, chorus..etc) so, I kept using it and retired the HD 500 for a while. However, with the HD 500 (and the TC Electronics Nova System I owned previously) the guitar is muted while tuning....same exact amps and configuration.

I'll check back in, in a few days.

Thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:10 am
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Tuner works silently when amp models are used and when the guitar is plugged directly into the unit and MF output is going to the amp input...

As an effects unit only, going into the effects loop of the Amp, it does not tune silently...signal still audible..

I don't know why that is... Maybe it's something that can be addressed in a future firmware update. Going back to the HD 500 for now...

Thanks for the help.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:36 pm
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Hi gemari77,

It sounds like you are getting bleed from the amp through the effects return. We will run this by one of our engineers here and follow up shortly. Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:05 am
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Let me check I understand this, because this seems weird and it's piqued my curiosity:

1: If you have: guitar plugged into MF "INPUT" socket, and the MF "UNBALANCED OUT L" socket plugged into the guitar-input socket on your amp; then the sound is muted in tuner mode as you expect.

2: If you have: guitar plugged into amp's guitar-input socket, amp's "send" socket connected to MF "INPUT" socket and MF "UNBALANCED OUT L" socket plugged into the amp's "return socket"; then the sound is not muted?

For 2 above, is the sound at normal volume or partially muted?

If you then turn the MF off (but leave everything connected as per 2 above), do you still hear sound (if so at what volume compared to before) or is everything now muted?

If you now turn the MF back on, and disconnect the plug from the MF's "UNBALANCED OUT L" socket, but leave everything else connected exactly the same as for 2 above (in particular, leave the other end of the plug you've just disconnected plugged into the amp), is the sound now muted?

Just to confirm: there is nothing plugged into the "SEND" or "RETURN" sockets on the MF? Is there anything else connected to the MF at all, eg the aux, phones, XLR sockets? That shouldn't make a difference, but let's make sure we have the full picture.

Do the amps have adjustable level for their fx loops? I know some Blackstar amps do. Could be either a switch or a dial. Make sure that's set to 'instrument' level, which will usually be the lowest setting. If there is 'bleed' within the MF, having the input level too high might exaggerate that.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:00 pm
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Hi Guys,

We are looking into this now. Please stand by and I will get back to you with updated information ASAP. Thanks for your patience.

Alan

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor and Silent Tuning
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:44 am
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Hi Fender/Alan and gemari77,

Did you ever figure out what was going on here, why, and what the solution was? It would be useful to know, for the benefit of anyone else with the same or similar problem (whatever the cause: whether the problem was user error, amp setup or Mustang config, etc). Also, topics containing problem reports with no follow-up solution posted probably give an unfairly negative view, of the Mustangs as being equipment that has lots of problems without solutions!


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