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Post subject: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:06 pm
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Hi,

I have several pre-amp or amps (pignose, t-rex spindoctor, Blackstar HT5-RH) that I would like to use in conjunction of the Mustang III. I would like to be able to bypass the Amp and Cab simulation and just use the mustang's multi-effects capabilities like the Mustang floor can apparently do.

Pls include this feature in the next firmware/Fender Fuse updates?

A cool way to set this up would be for me to be able to plug my guitar into my real pedals (wah, etc) then to the input of the Fender Mustang III (apply virtual stomp effects at this stage then bypassable amp/cab simulation). After that, I could run a cable from the Mustang's effect loop into the input of my Blackstar head. Then, the signal comes back into the Mustang III's "return" from the "send" of the Blackstar's effect loop. Finally, we apply the rack-mounted effects at this stage.

I cannot do that right now because 1) cannot bypass the amp/cab simulation and 2) the rack-mounted effects are applied before the send of the Mustang's III effect loop.

Oh, and could you please make a pedal board similar to the floor unit but without the processor so we could plug it into our Mustang amp and have the same user friendliness that comes with stomps and an expression pedal?

Is this a dream that will never come true?


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:16 pm
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You can disable cabs officially, but not amps. This "empty" preset may be the solution: https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/preset.php/pita-empty


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:44 pm
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mpr wrote:
You can disable cabs officially, but not amps. This "empty" preset may be the solution: https://fuse.fender.com/mustang/preset.php/pita-empty


Yep, this will get you part way there, but sadly, there's no way to control the position of the Mustang amps' effect loops; AFAIK, they are all fixed post DSP (after rack effects) as you lamented. You could also try going into the MIII's input with the empty preset, and "give up" the modeled stomp slots in favor of the rack effects only (I'm not sure how different pre/post effects would sound with no amp model, apart from stereo in some cases).

PITA


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:22 pm
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Hi FreddyFuFu,

So, one suggestion here is to come into the Fender Mustang III in the effects return. Perhaps you can use the Preset mentioned here along with bypassing Cab Sim and all effects. This way, you are post and inputting straight to the power section. I hope this is helpful. Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:36 am
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Hi, thanks for the answers. I have tried the empty preset without much results. In this mode, if I plug my pre-amp in the input, I get no sound. If I plug it in the return of the Mustang's effect loop, I get sound BUT without effects and it's not recordable via USB as you will understand later on.

However, I did try to connect my pre-amps directly into the Return of the Mustang's effect loop months ago. That is how I discovered that the rack-mounted effect could not be applied after the effects loop of the mustang III.

THis morning, to my great dissatisfaction, I decided to again plug my pre-amps in the return of the Mustang's effect loop. This setup should have at least allowed me to use the Mustang's USB interface to record my pre-amps with Ableton Live lite 8 on my PC. Well, it seems the Mustang has more flaws than I thought... the signal sent through USB to the PC does not include the effect loop!!! I can hear the effects loop through the headphones output of the Mustang III but Live 8 gets the signal before the loop! Anything plugged in the effects loop does not get recorded via USB! I have to use the Mustang's headphones output connected to the microphone input of my PC in DirectX/MME mode. Which, has latency and noise issues that I wanted to avoid with the USB connection.

Recording with the Mustang III and Live 8 is a freaking nightmare! There are always technical issues either with the Mustang's tweakability or Live 8 that take hours to figure out and then, when things finally work, you feel too tired and angry to get any musical inspiration on record. I get so pissed, months pass by between attempts to use Live 8 because it is so frustrating and time-consuming.

One example, I lost at least 40h trying to make Live 8 be able to output to my PC speakers. Nothing worked short of shutting down the Windows Audio service. I had to create a command-line script to shut-down and restart the Windows Audio service before and after using Ableton Live Lite on Windows 7. Otherwise, Live 8 had no playback capabilities with ASIO drivers. The driver would simply considered the realtek HD audio speakers "In use by another application" or "MS GS wave Table Synth enabled". I must have tried 15 different troubleshooting approach taken from the Fender, ableton and Asio forums until the one suggestion to shut down the audio service worked. That is some sweet user-friendliness when customers have to program their own launchers to make the application work on the most popular OS in the world.

I actually have more fun and grittier tones for rock out of my pignose directly powering the Mustang's cab than any of the fender digital amp models. The Pignose... the other knob that doesn't disappoint. Yes, I modded my Mustang so I could use it as a CAB. I only had to install a speaker cable input jack. I connect my blackstar and Pignose into it and it sounds great. I guess if I want to record the Pignose or Blackstar with Live 8, I'll have to buy another USB audio interface and a good mic.

The best thing about the Mustang's up to now for me has been it's great sound as a 1X12 cab for my other real amps. The Mustang's presets sound great on their own too. But when you want to mix the real/analog world with presets and record it... it gets nightmarish. If I had not modded my Mustang to use it as a cab for my Blackstar... I think I would have sold it by now to get a cabinet for the Blackstar head and maybe a POD HD500 or BOSS GT-100, maybe even a Mustang Floor.

It frustrates me to have to consider buying another digital multi-effect unit, USB audio interface and recording software after I thougth that the Mustang III bundle with Live 8 would take care of all those needs.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:22 pm
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Hi FreddyFuFu,

I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing frustrations with your set up. Ableton Live Lite Fender Edition does have a learning curve. But there are some very good tutorial videos online. You may want to check out the ones that Ableton has on their site among others. Please see the link below. In regard to your comments about the amp itself, you may want to try running the effects in-line in order to get them into the USB recording chain. Thanks.

http://www.ableton.com/movies

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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:02 am
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I just read the suggestion to put my effects in-line to avoid the issue of the USB interface not sending the effects loop signal to the computer. Not very satisfactory. Sends me back to my original problem of how to bypass modeled amps.

I should be able to put effects in the loop and record them with the integrated USB interface. That is a serious flaw because I cannot use the Mustang simply as a transparent power amp and use the USB interface to record REAL pre-amps pluggeg into it.

If I plug my pre-amp into the Mustang's regular input, that pre-amp will become like an overdrive pedal in front of one the Mustang's digital modeled amps. I DON'T WANT to hear the modeled amps color my pre-amps!

TO solve my problem Fender has to: update your firmware to include the effects loop in the USB signal and the ability to place the rack mounted effects before or after the effects loop. Another way to allow the recording of pre-amps would be for Fender to give us the ability to bypass the modeled amps so we can use the Mustang's effects over a REAL tube amp.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:53 am
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Hi FreddyFuFu,

Thanks again for all your thoughtful feedback and comments here. And I hear what you are saying. I will definitely continue to pass along your input to the right folks here. And in the mean time, please let us know if we can assist further.

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(800) 856-9801


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Post subject: Re: Mustang III limitation vs Floor unit...
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:39 pm
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Freddiefufu

If you want to bypass the MIII models, so why do you even have MIII?
It's a modeling amp. That's what it's supposed to do.

You obviously have plenty of amps, preamps, and effects. So why nitpick the MIII over these issues. Use the amp closer to the framework of how it was designed.

"Dear Chevy, I really like the style and power of the Corvette, but I can't connect and tow 5000lb camper trailer, and it gets stuck in the snow all the time. Why did you build these limitation into your vehicle?"

Simple solution:
Use your preamp.
Get a multi-effects pedal that has the features you like. (There are many to choose from.)
Go direct from the new pedal
or connect to transparent amp/cab that YOU like or Record with a usb Mic.


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