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Post subject: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:55 am
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These look interesting. I'm hoping that it might give Fender the impetus to build us a Pro version of the 'Stangs. I like that Blackstar had decided to pay more attention to modeling the magical (for me) part of tube amps - the power section. Fender has done a decent job of this in the Mustangs but without as much detail as in the Blackstar's. I never understood why most companies who build modelers pay so little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling and that everything is so focused on the preamp. The preamp is only one part of the sound.

It remains to be seen as to how effective/convincing their modeling tech is as I don't think they're on this side of the pond yet.

O.

http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/products/id30/index.php
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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:15 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
I never understood why most companies who build modelers pay so little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling and that everything is so focused on the preamp.


Just curious, what makes you think Fender and other companies who build modelers pay little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling?

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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:28 am
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Why do you think that the blackstar may be a modeling amp? It does not mention this in the description of it,it mentions it has 6 different voicings but nothing about using amp modeling technology.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:39 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
I never understood why most companies who build modelers pay so little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling and that everything is so focused on the preamp.


Just curious, what makes you think Fender and other companies who build modelers pay little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling?


As I said, most companies. I think you didn't see the part of my post which obviously exempts Fender -
Quote:
I like that Blackstar had decided to pay more attention to modeling the magical (for me) part of tube amps - the power section. Fender has done a decent job of this in the Mustangs but without as much detail as in the Blackstar's


If you look in Fuse, some amp models whose real life counterparts have a master volume also have a virtual master volume in the Advanced Amp settings. This allows the amp model to emulate cranking the master volume like you would on the real thing. This is a very important part a real amp's sound and this parameter is nonexistent in most other modelers. It might be available on ones like the AxeFX you don't get this kind of control in Line6, Digitech or Boss modelers. It allows you to choose whether you get "Preamp distortion" only or "Power Tube" distortion. You can hear the difference if you play around with these settings.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:41 am
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Metalman50 wrote:
Why do you think that the blackstar may be a modeling amp? It does not mention this in the description of it,it mentions it has 6 different voicings but nothing about using amp modeling technology.


It may or may not be a modeling amp. It doesn't matter to me if it sounds good. The power tube emulations, El84, KT66, etc., leads me to think that it likely is a modeling amp. Because of the stigma of amp modeling, lots of companies will go out of their way not to use the "M" word. Just look at the Kempler "Profiling" amp. :roll: It's a modeler but you'll never get them to say it.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:50 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
As I said, most companies. I think you didn't see the part of my post which obviously exempts Fender

I read every part of your post, maybe it was poorly worded.

Orcatraz wrote:
Fender has done a decent job of this in the Mustangs but without as much detail as in the Blackstar's. I never understood why most companies who build modelers pay so little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling and that everything is so focused on the preamp.

But forget I said anything, whatever, go buy a Blackstar

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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:13 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Orcatraz wrote:
As I said, most companies. I think you didn't see the part of my post which obviously exempts Fender

I read every part of your post, maybe it was poorly worded.

Orcatraz wrote:
Fender has done a decent job of this in the Mustangs but without as much detail as in the Blackstar's. I never understood why most companies who build modelers pay so little attention to the power sections of the tube amps they're modeling and that everything is so focused on the preamp.

But forget I said anything, whatever, go buy a Blackstar


I like how you conveniently omit the sentence before the one you chose to put in the quote - the one that clarifies the point I was making. To be clear, here it is again with the sentence you omitted. I don't think it was poorly written at all. You simply chose to make it something that it isn't.
Quote:
I like that Blackstar had decided to pay more attention to modeling the magical (for me) part of tube amps - the power section. Fender has done a decent job of this in the Mustangs but without as much detail as in the Blackstar's


I never said anything about buying a Blackstar, nor was my post a slam at Fender. I just thought it was an interesting development. I still love my MII.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:45 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
I like how you conveniently omit the sentence before the one you chose to put in the quote - the one that clarifies the point I was making.

and I like how you omitted the sentence after the one you quoted

To be honest, I don't really care, I was just curious what you were basing your assumptions on. But now I'm not curious anymore, not even mildly interested. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:41 pm
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Jeez,
lads come on, can we discuss the amp in question? I for one am intrigued by this range, and its getting bigger (they have just announced 15 and 30 watt versions at reasonable prices 199 and 279£ respectively).
They are definitely modellers as they come with GUI software. Looks like an interesting concept modelling the tubes used,although I'm not sure about the gain stage- maybe it could be too discrete choosing between 6 set voicings? Luckily I live near the main Irish distributor so I will be making a trip over to check these out shortly.

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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:50 am
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colos wrote:
Jeez,
lads come on, can we discuss the amp in question? I for one am intrigued by this range, and its getting bigger (they have just announced 15 and 30 watt versions at reasonable prices 199 and 279£ respectively).
They are definitely modellers as they come with GUI software. Looks like an interesting concept modelling the tubes used,although I'm not sure about the gain stage- maybe it could be too discrete choosing between 6 set voicings? Luckily I live near the main Irish distributor so I will be making a trip over to check these out shortly.


199£ =$310 for a 15 watt solid state modeling amp--more expensive than the 100 watt Mustang III. And as far as I can tell, it still doesn't have an external speaker jack and impedance switch.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:23 am
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colos wrote:
Jeez,
lads come on, can we discuss the amp in question?


You're right of course, Colos. I should have known better.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:35 am
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cormorant wrote:
199£ =$310 for a 15 watt solid state modeling amp--more expensive than the 100 watt Mustang III. And as far as I can tell, it still doesn't have an external speaker jack and impedance switch.


It may well end up selling in the states for $199. I've seen it happen and it never fails to tick-off the folks in Europe - can't say I blame them. The reason is that these companies realize that a $310 15 watt solid state amp would be a pretty hard sell. It would be an even harder sell if it is in fact a modeling amp. If it does end up selling for $199, it would still make the 15 watt model more expensive than the Mustang I. However, if the build quality and materials are of a higher grade and it sounds good, it would be worth it. I am really intrigued by the idea of being able to mix and match preamp and power amp types.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:28 am
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Blackstar gear is built to a high standard. We all $@!&* about the quality of some of the mustang components- that isnt an issue with these guys. I would certainly consider £199 cheap for one of their products, I mean the pedals go for anything between 150 & 250. Its the same price at the Ht-1 without the reverb.
The real dealbreaker would be the software- - if thats not well developed then people will turn off from.them. Oh and the lack of an extension output on the combos!

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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:39 am
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colos wrote:
Blackstar gear is built to a high standard. We all $@!&* about the quality of some of the mustang components- that isnt an issue with these guys. I would certainly consider £199 cheap for one of their products, I mean the pedals go for anything between 150 & 250. Its the same price at the Ht-1 without the reverb.
The real dealbreaker would be the software- - if thats not well developed then people will turn off from.them. Oh and the lack of an extension output on the combos!


Agreed, but the lack of a speaker extension output on the combos isn't a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't complain if it was there but I'm almost sure I'd never be in a situation that would allow me to use it. I've not done a gig where I can't mic the amp if I need to... maybe it's 'cause I also own the PA. :lol:

O.


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Post subject: Re: Looks like Blackstar is building their own "Mustangs"
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:12 am
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Coincidentally, I was just checking this out a couple days ago on the Blackstar website and youtube. I love my HT-5. A modern classic, IMO.

I would be very, very surprised if the clean sounds of the Blackstar are nearly as good as the Mustangs'. I watched the youtube teaser trailer and was not impressed with the clean sound at all. But driven, it was quite good. I am sure that Blackstar will tune the overdriven programs very well.

For me, Fender + Blackstar = all bases covered


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