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Post subject: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:09 pm
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I am also on the peavey vypyr support forums and would just like everyones opinion on the topic: 5 Years Later...,try not to be too biased because i said there are fan boys on both the mustang and vypyr forums but i just disagree what these guy's are saying about the fender 65 twin reverb model in the vypyr and the other clean models that they think sound better then the mustang's clean amp models,i said there are pro's and con's on both the mustang and vypyr and explain my opinions in this forum.

I go by the name of vypman and here is the link to it: http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php? ... 0&start=15


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:47 pm
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no need to defend Mustangs vs Vypers as far as I'm concerned. I'm happy with what I have and everyone over there seems to be happy with what they have. That's really what matters. They seem like a good bunch of players who are enthusiastic about their equipment, you gotta love it. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:02 pm
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I just fail to understand why the 'Stang's Twin model is so quiet compared to the other amp models. It's not like the real Twin is a low-power rig.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:01 am
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A question often asked here and never explained - why is an amp commonly considered to be loud, modeled so softly ??

The only way to get the Twin model volume level up to anything like the oomph of most of the other models is to push the gain, and thereby the crunch, which largely defeats the purpose of the 'clean' Twin model in the first place.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:10 am
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depepat wrote:
A question often asked here and never explained - why is an amp commonly considered to be loud, modeled so softly ??

The only way to get the Twin model volume level up to anything like the oomph of most of the other models is to push the gain, and thereby the crunch, which largely defeats the purpose of the 'clean' Twin model in the first place.


An excellent question, depetat and nadzab. Fender's not the only one guilty of this though, Vox and Digitech are equally bad about it. Are they thinking that a clean model's low output level is an unimportant thing? I mean, it's even hard to get the Deluxe and Princeton models to be clean unless the gain is unbearably low. I have to use a compressor in the post position, which inherently adds noise and hiss, to get a useable amount of level from these models. What is so difficult about this that is so hard for companies to understand? To me, at low gain settings, the amp model's output should be compensated for - kind of like the "make-up gain" knob on some of the better software compressor plugins. It would be cool if it were automatic so that as you lower the gain, the amp model increases its output to maintain the output level you've set in the preset volume - without increasing it numerically. That way if you do need more output (or less) you can still increase (or reduce) it. Clean models should have as much output available as models designed for overdriven sounds.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:56 am
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Getting the Twin volume to balance with other models for live playing is a real issue, which is one of the reasons I usually end up using other models instead, but none are the same as a nice loud, clean Twin.

I guess in theory some kind of 'clean boost' pedal might help, but how many of those are truly clean ?


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:47 am
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If you guy's think the mustang clean amp fender models are low in volume and do not sound loud as you want them to be you should try out peavey vypyr's fender and other clean amp models,i have the vypyr 30 and when i switch to a clean amp model after playing through the vypyr's high gain models,for example the mesa model the volume drop when switched to the clean model is drastic and much lower in volume compared to vypyr's high gain models.

If i had my master volume on 2 for the vypyr's high gain models i would then have to raise it to 4 for the vypyr's fender clean models to have the high gain and clean models at the same volume level! That is just too great of a volume mismatch in my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:23 am
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I have no idea, and I'm just throwing this out there in case it hasn't been considered, but does the master volume under the advanced settings help this issue at all?


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:51 pm
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Kyle76 wrote:
I have no idea, and I'm just throwing this out there in case it hasn't been considered, but does the master volume under the advanced settings help this issue at all?


A lot of the amp models don't have Master Volume under the advanced amp It helps on the ones that have it.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:35 pm
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Violin Parent

Clearly the Mustang IV can be way louder than a Mustang I, but we were not talking about the relative loudness of the Mustang amps themselves, we were discussing the relative loudness of the amp MODELS on those amps, and the unexplained fact that the model of the Twin Reverb is much quieter than most of the other models on all the Mustang amps, and that you can't easily match its volume with the other amp models without losing that clean Twin sound.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:48 pm
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so why don't you leave the Twin where it sounds good to your ears, and lower the volume on the other models to match that volume. Then use the Master to make it all louder... no good? I honestly haven't used the Twin model too much so haven't tried it myself.

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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:37 am
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Violin Parent wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
so why don't you leave the Twin where it sounds good to your ears, and lower the volume on the other models to match that volume. Then use the Master to make it all louder... no good? I honestly haven't used the Twin model too much so haven't tried it myself.


Right. This is exactly what I said, perhaps more concisely!

I repeat my question to the people complaining that the twin setting is too quiet--are you using an M1 or M2?



There's more to this than just turning up the amp and turning down the louder presets to compensate. Firstly, turning up the amp increases noise and hiss and if you happen to have some mild "fizz" issues, they will be exascerbated. Any decent audio engineer will tell you that having ample clean output gain is always a good thing. Furthermore, the fact that the Mustangs are inexpensive amps is no excuse to tolerate the low output of the clean models. I'm not the first guy to advocate playing loud but lowering the output of the overdriven presets to compensate for the low output of the clean presets effectively lowers the the overall useable output of ALL the Mustangs. This to me makes it a ludicrous solution to a problem that need not exist on a product that is updatable via firmware.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:00 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
turning up the amp increases noise and hiss

Y'know I find it so odd that some people have a problem with hiss, I just played my MIII in a broadway review (LOTS of silence where hiss would be noticable). It was whisper quiet, the only noise in the pit was coming from the bass player's VOX amp.

Orcatraz wrote:
....if you happen to have some mild "fizz" issues, they will be exascerbated.

Very interesting, the vast majority of the people who claim to have this issue say the master volume does not exacerbate the issue. It must be mutating! :shock:

Orcatraz wrote:
Furthermore, the fact that the Mustangs are inexpensive amps is no excuse to tolerate the low output of the clean models.

Absolutely agreed. Along the same logic, I have been petitioning Toyota and badmouthing them on their own forums because my Tercel does not go as fast as a Corvette. The fact that Tercels are inexpensive cars is no excuse to tolerate the low speeds they produce on the highway. :evil:

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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:01 pm
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Violin Parent wrote:
depepat wrote:
Getting the Twin volume to balance with other models for live playing is a real issue, which is one of the reasons I usually end up using other models instead, but none are the same as a nice loud, clean Twin.

I guess in theory some kind of 'clean boost' pedal might help, but how many of those are truly clean ?


Which Mustang are you using for live playing? There is simply no comparison between the M2 and the M4 with 2X12 celestian speakers.



We're not talking about the MI (at least I'm not). I have an MIII and find the relatively low volume of the Twin model vexing...and that model has no master volume. Also, I think some of us are just perplexed by the fact that the model of the Twin - a LOUD amp in real life - is so quiet, compared to say, the Champ.


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Post subject: Re: Defending Mustang Clean Amp Models
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:33 pm
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I think nadzab has it right.

We're not whining, we're just puzzled, and the lack of any explanation from Alan or other Fender mods leaves a vacuum in which people just speculate.

Is the Twin model oddly quiet relative to other models and to the amp it is modeled on ? - demonstrably yes.

Do we know why ? - no.


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