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Post subject: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:52 pm
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If I plug the output of the headphone port into a keyboard amp will I hear a full range frequency response of the signal?

I'm assuming keyboard amps are FRFR systems.

What about the same experiment with an acoustic guitar amp?

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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:10 pm
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Well, you'll hear a more true representation of the Mustang's Cab Sims. It'll never be truly full range as the Cab Sims are really trying to imitate the very limited frequency range of a real guitar speaker. Same goes for acoustic guitar amps. This will also expose any and all of the Cab Sims' inadequacies. At firstI'd thought that the amps' speakers do a lot to compensate for the Cab Sims' weaknesses but in listening the recordings I made via USB, they're not too bad. Quite good in fact for the price of these amps.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:26 pm
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I don't have a keyboard or acoustic guitar amp on hand but I'm curious enough that I might borrow one.

To me it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop a modelling amp and then pipe the signal to an instrument speaker. My thinking is that with a modelling amp anything in the signal path, after the modelling, should be as linear as inexpensive solid state technology will allow (which can get pretty good) and that the speaker should be full range flat response hi-fi speaker.

I have a lot of respect for the Fender developers but I am confused by some of their design decisions.

Cheers,

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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:23 pm
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mhowell wrote:
I don't have a keyboard or acoustic guitar amp on hand but I'm curious enough that I might borrow one.

To me it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop a modelling amp and then pipe the signal to an instrument speaker. My thinking is that with a modelling amp anything in the signal path, after the modelling, should be as linear as inexpensive solid state technology will allow (which can get pretty good) and that the speaker should be full range flat response hi-fi speaker.

I have a lot of respect for the Fender developers but I am confused by some of their design decisions.

Cheers,


I mostly agree with you but...
As I said in my last post, full range flat response speakers will expose all the flaws in bad sounding Cab Sims. Garbage in, garbage out.

I also sometimes wonder if the signal being sent to the Mustangs' power amp is ever so slightly different from what is being sent to the Heaphone out and USB. The reason I say this is that when I compare the real speaker's output on my MII with what is coming in via USB, the difference is there but the USB signal doesn't sound horrible by comparison. Perhaps they minimize the effect of the Cab Sims on the signal going to the power amp. Maybe they even mix in a bit of the "dry" signal that has no Cab Sim EQ curve.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:52 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:

I mostly agree with you but...
As I said in my last post, full range flat response speakers will expose all the flaws in bad sounding Cab Sims. Garbage in, garbage out.

I also sometimes wonder if the signal being sent to the Mustangs' power amp is ever so slightly different from what is being sent to the Heaphone out and USB. The reason I say this is that when I compare the real speaker's output on my MII with what is coming in via USB, the difference is there but the USB signal doesn't sound horrible by comparison. Perhaps they minimize the effect of the Cab Sims on the signal going to the power amp. Maybe they even mix in a bit of the "dry" signal that has no Cab Sim EQ curve.

O.


If there are inadequacies in the cab sims wouldn't they already be exposed in the headphones?

Since the power amp is turned off when plugging in the headphones I assume that the headphones are capturing the same signal that goes to the power amp. That doesn't preclude the possibility of additional filtering between the switch and the power amp but I don't know why that would be done especially considering that the product should be as financially economical (read cheap) as possible.

Even the most linear amplification system can't compensate for changes in the way we hear things at different volumes. However, I'm far from being knowledgeable in psycho-acoustics so I won't dwell on that to much. Just saying that you will perceive changes in the tone between headphones and speakers regardless of the amplification quality.

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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:15 pm
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My Mustang V sounded real good through a Motion Sound KB Amp

Image

I have since sold that amp, bought a Mustang Floor and playing it through two altec lansing rm3010 for a practice rig. I bought mine for $43.00 a piece and now they are down to $29.00 a piece..

http://www.amazon.com/Altec-Lansing-RM3 ... B002P8M6DE

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Post subject: Re: Mustang into a keyboard amp
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:29 pm
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mhowell wrote:
If there are inadequacies in the cab sims wouldn't they already be exposed in the headphones?

Since the power amp is turned off when plugging in the headphones I assume that the headphones are capturing the same signal that goes to the power amp. That doesn't preclude the possibility of additional filtering between the switch and the power amp but I don't know why that would be done especially considering that the product should be as financially economical (read cheap) as possible.

Even the most linear amplification system can't compensate for changes in the way we hear things at different volumes. However, I'm far from being knowledgeable in psycho-acoustics so I won't dwell on that to much. Just saying that you will perceive changes in the tone between headphones and speakers regardless of the amplification quality.


Agreed. All I'm talking about is the fact that using a Cab Sim when you're already using a real Cab, is often not a good idea as it leads to very muddied sounds. This is why most Modeling devices have pre-calibrated output settings for use with an amp's front input (some even specify the Make and type - Combo or Stack), power amp through guitar speakers or straight to a mixer. Without these specialized settings, you'd essentially be doubling the reduction of high frequencies already being attenuated by the amp's speaker, yet the Mustangs sound really good doing the exact thing that one shouldn't do. It comes with the factory presets that all use Cab Sims.

O.


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