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Post subject: Humbuckers
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:09 pm
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I've owned a Mustang iii for about a year now. I love the tones that come from this box with single coils and P90s. The 57 Deluxe, Princeton, Deluxe Reverb and the Vox models are very convincing. The natural tube compression that it produces on the 57 Deluxe is hard to tell the difference between the Mustang and a decent tube amp.

That's with single coils and P90s....... humbuckers are a different story. I have a real love/hate relationship with this amp when it comes to humbuckers and I'm very close to sending it to the Ebay auction block soon

The tone that I'm looking can be found in this video by Dickey Betts, and its pretty much a clean tone. I realize that a $300 modeling amp wont give us the tone that the Marshall's and studio equipment that Betts uses but it would be nice to be close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXn-SorW ... B7D3EA16C1

The main advice that I've heard is to turn the guitar volume down. Tried it and it was still overdriving and unbalanced. I recently hung a Behringer EQ pedal on it and it helped tremendously. I also discovered that the Ernie Ball stainless strings that I was using was part of the problem too. Changing to GHS Nickel Rockers took the output down considerably and balanced the bass/treble tone much better .

The tone that I've ended up with is OK but it doesn't dazzle me like the Mustang does with SC and p90s - its just kinda there and a bit sterile even with a hint of reverb and delay. I've settled on using the Princeton and Vox models as they give me the closest tone.

Anyone have a suggestion how to get closer to the tone that is heard on the video?


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:53 pm
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Hi Bluezhawk,

I would suggest that you try working with the Advanced Amp settings 'Bias' & 'SAG' to see what additional combinations might work for your humbuckers. Also, as you may have tried, the channel Gain may help. Please let us know if we can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:05 pm
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Hi Alan

I've tweaked on most of the settings and have a couple of settings that are, like I said, OK.

I'm using a Peavey JF1, which is a 335 copy and with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, sounded great. I really regret selling that HRD but 40 tube watts was a bit much. Knowing what I do now, I wouldn't have let it go.
Having said that, I don't think that I can blame the guitar and I hate to point the finger at the Mustang since it sounds so good with SC and P90s.

Hopefully someone that is better with the amp will be adventurous come up with something better than I have.


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:34 pm
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Hi Bluezhawk,

Thanks for the follow up here. I will get a link to this thread to one of our engineers who might be able to offer some additional information/ideas on this and let you know what I find.

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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:55 pm
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Hi Alan

Thank you for elevating this request as you have. Some additional info for your consideration.

I just uploaded a preset that I came up with today called Dickey Betts 335 Clean and I included a link to the YouTube video in the preset description. I'm getting closer so any input from engineering would be appreciated

I also consulted with Uncle Seymour and some of his friends on the SD forum board. I followed some of their suggestion and did some tweaking on the height of my neck pickup and pole pieces.

Like I said, getting closer.


Keith <><
aka Bluezhawk


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:23 pm
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I set my patches for buckers.


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:48 am
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Bluezhawk, see my post in this thread:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=63747

This is why the EQ pedal helped things out - you changed the impedance of the signal coming from the guitar.


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Post subject: Re:Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:42 am
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Good point.

The Level control on the EQ pedal is, in effect, allows it to perform like a variable input. Many good tube amps have a high and low input, older Ampeg's are labeled guitar and accordion LOL, and this is one function that the Mustang lacks.

I decided to buy the EQ pedal after reading Robbie Calvo describing modding his guitar tone circuits. I realized that an EQ pedal would be similar - and I'm not opening a can of worms here, I know the circuitry.theory is different - the EQ pedal would not only allow me to find the 'offending' frequencies but to alter the input into the preamp like the High & Low inputs on some amps.

Side note: If you are wondering about Robbie Calvo, he is great session player and educator. Several courses on Trufire.com and he is launching his own website soon. Recommended for any who want to learn from an GIT instructor


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:11 am
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Bluez - I think you're on the right track with string changes, and playing with the pickup height!! As you found out, Ernie Ball strings are not really a good choice for any sort of "cleanish" sound. Nickle or nickle wrap is a MUCH better choice. Also, lower your buckers, and don't be afraid to get them lower than you might think. Most buckers get more "air" in their sound when you lower them. Which humbuckers do you have? There are quite a few aftermarket humbuckers which are designed to get a high output, and those typically sound pretty sterile and piercing clean. Try some 57 Classics, you might find that they fill the bill (and are likely what Betts uses anyway).

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1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
Marshall JTM 60


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:26 am
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Hey thom

Thanks for the suggestions
I've been trying to avoid the pickup change since it sounded good with my previous amp. Plus unemployment is a hindering factor now as well but that will end soon.
I know GFS and Stewmac has some really good PAF pickups that I may go to in the future. I also have a good PRS copy that has no name HBs that push the Mustang even harder. I plan to install a pair of Duncan Design that I have in it after I get the Peavey where I want it.

Accorcding to Peavey's spec sheet on the guitar, the neck pickup is:
Peavey USA Design
Construction: Humbucking
Magnet Type: Ceramic 5 bar
Description: Dual Coil. Harmonically positioned, frequency calibrated for neck position of the JF-1. Vintage style winding allows smooth mids, warmth and more sustain in solo work in neck position.
Ceramic loaded for added presence at higher volume levels. Fully potted.. 7.4K DC. Chrome plated cover for added shielding as well as “vintage” appearance. 4 conductor shielded hookup cable.

Spec sheet
http://peavey.com/assets/literature/spe ... _11895.pdf

Guitar
http://peavey.com/products/instruments/ ... 20Red.html


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:35 am
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Bluezhawk wrote:
Accorcding to Peavey's spec sheet on the guitar, the neck pickup is:
Peavey USA Design
Construction: Humbucking
Magnet Type: Ceramic 5 bar
Description: Dual Coil. Harmonically positioned, frequency calibrated for neck position of the JF-1. Vintage style winding allows smooth mids, warmth and more sustain in solo work in neck position.
Ceramic loaded for added presence at higher volume levels. Fully potted.. 7.4K DC. Chrome plated cover for added shielding as well as “vintage” appearance. 4 conductor shielded hookup cable.

Spec sheet
http://peavey.com/assets/literature/spe ... _11895.pdf


7.4K is a pretty hot pickup!!! That's probably why you aren't getting a very pleasing clean sound!!! I'd certainly look into something else. I've never heard either the Stewmac or the GFS pickups, although I've heard that the GFS are pretty good for the money. Look on the used market for the Gibby 490s. They came standard in a lot of their guitars, and end up on the used market really cheap. They have a wonderful warm tone!!

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1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
Marshall JTM 60


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:08 am
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Hi Bluezhawk,
I think rolling off the volume on your guitar is the best advice I can give you. I added a preset for you to try, Betts Nancy Lead, however I suspect you might not like it since it has more distortion than the one you added. A little more gain with a light touch sounds better to my ears. I used the stock humbucker on a Highway One Strat. Hope this helps!


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:15 am
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I had a set of Golden Age pickups from Stewmac and they were good in a Washburn J6 Montgomery archtop.

Its possible as well that the ceramic magnet that Peavey uses vs Alnico of the Gibson's may be a factor as well.


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:21 am
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Bluezhawk wrote:
I had a set of Golden Age pickups from Stewmac and they were good in a Washburn J6 Montgomery archtop.

Its possible as well that the ceramic magnet that Peavey uses vs Alnico of the Gibson's may be a factor as well.


Yeah, I thought about the ceramic part too. I've never heard a ceramic that had a really good, full, warm tone, but I've never heard ALL of the ceramics that are out there, so I didn't want to make a blanket statement.

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1963 Princeton
1965 Twin Reverb
1968 Bandmaster
1970 Champ
1983 (?) Musicmaster
2012 Mustang III
West Grande (x2)
Acoustic G60-T
Marshall JTM 60


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Post subject: Re: Humbuckers
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:27 am
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thompal wrote:
7.4K is a pretty hot pickup!!! That's probably why you aren't getting a very pleasing clean sound!!! I'd certainly look into something else. I've never heard either the Stewmac or the GFS pickups, although I've heard that the GFS are pretty good for the money. Look on the used market for the Gibby 490s. They came standard in a lot of their guitars, and end up on the used market really cheap. They have a wonderful warm tone!!


You call that hot? Dude, that's a standard pickup for me.

Hagstrom Ultra-Swede: 7.2K/12K (Neck/Bridge) [Custom 60s]
Gibson Les Paul Custom: 7.4K/13.6K [490R/498T]
Gibson SG Special: 7.4K/7.6K [490R/490T]
Warmoth Strat: 8.2K/9.6K/16.8K (Neck/Middle/Bridge) [SD Cool Rail/Vintage/Hot Stack]
Fender Stratocaster: 5.7K/5.9K/6.1K [Texas Special Staggered]

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