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Post subject: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel think?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:29 am
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
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Location: England
Hi,

Bit of a (long, sorry) philosophical musing this, just curious on others (particularly existing Mustang owners) view...

I'd pretty much settled on a Mustang IV after researching / listening to umpteen amps, doing the whole valve (tube) vs modelling debate, etc, etc. The Mustang seems to offer the best balance of sound, features, ease-of-use, etc, for my purposes (ok, I'd prefer lower power, but want the stereo loop/speakers and on-amp editing).

But I'm now put off by a number of issues. Sure, the Mustang is a bargain price and one doesn't expect perfection; but it should at least do everything it's supposed to, without fault. Have Fender gone too far in building it down to a budget; would it have been better with more R&D and higher quality components, and a higher price tag, to prevent a few basic faults?

One thing that did convince me a Mustang is the right choice is Fender's impressive customer service. If every company had an Alan Willey, the world would be a better place! But ironically, has the company's open, helpful attitude to customer support created a focal point for issues, and given minor problems a higher profile than they warrant? Or are there really major issues? I suppose that's the key question of this post.

The fizz issue for example. Some amps have it, to varying degrees from minor to unusable, some don't (I wonder what the proportions are? From this forum, it sounds like every amp has it, but of course only those with a problem would mention it!). On the one hand, if it's minor it probably wouldn't bother me a lot, but at the other extreme I don't want the risk of getting a really bad, unusable amp - or one that becomes so after a few months, as seems to be a common symptom. Sure, I could take it back to the shop under warranty - but why should I have to have that hassle, for a known issue? Not to get sidetracked into a discussion on Fender's (lack of) response / action on this, but it sounds overall as though it's a hardware issue that Fender may be trying to work around with a firmware update, and they may (or not) be changing the hardware to fix it. But there seems no way to know what manufacturing date of amp would have the hardware fix (if any), plus there still seems to be 2010/2011 amps in the supply chain, based on other posts, so it's unlikely I'd be able to buy a new, fixed one (if there is such a thing) anytime soon.

I don't want to take that gamble: I should be able to confidently buy a new product safe in the knowledge that significant known issues in early production runs have been addressed.

Then there's the expression pedal. I thought this would be a great addition to the amp for using wah effects, etc. But that seems beset with hardware (eg calibration) and firmware (eg lights not working) problems and I can only conclude, disappointedly, is best avoided until they're all fixed and new stock of the fixed ones is available.

Finally, there's build and component quality. I read one (perhaps extreme) report of a cabinet failing, but there are numerous reports of the cheap, plastic sockets breaking. To me, that sort of thing is just not acceptable (and because they're directly soldered to the PCB, my initial thought that I could just do a home-upgrade to better sockets isn't looking so easy). Plus, if such an obviously critical component is sub-standard, this raises concerns about the overall quality of the rest of the componentry: are all the bits we can't see similarly sub-standard and liable to premature failure?

The Mustang is a great concept, and so nearly perfect (for its purpose). Should I go ahead and buy one, accepting its flaws, or do I wait for maybe a "Mustang Mark 2" or "Mustang Pro" (if Fender are ever planning such a thing) that's a bit better quality? Heck, I'd actually happily pay (say) 25% more for a "Pro" version with better hardware and that works as advertised without fault!

I realise anyone from Fender reading this is constrained in what they can comment on, but I would welcome the chance to discuss offline if you have any information / suggestions that may help with my concerns. Thank you.

Best regards,
Scott


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:06 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
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Location: New York
My Mustang III is tremendous, I don't hear any 'fizz' and I've had it since early March this year. I read all about it before I purchased the amp and in the end it didn't scare me away. I'm glad I made the decision to pick one up.

There is a YouTube video out there and some audio clips, but none of the people who made them seem to be willing to tell what settings they were using, or specifics about how the clips were recorded so I really have nothing to compare it to. I just know mine sounds great.

As far as the quality of the build, I treat this amp like it's a computer - I don't bump it against anything or drop it, I'm very careful not to let any of the wires plugged in to the top of the amp get 'yanked' or pulled, and I fasten the wires to the handle just in case. So far so good.

I do not have the expression pedal, so I can't offer an opinion on that.

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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:27 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:27 am
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Hi Scott,
I think we are in a new age of buying since we have access to the internet and all the information we can get out of it. Last year, I needed a new TV, so I spent weeks on forums trying to find the one that was perfect. I figured out that it was impossible and I finally bought the one that fitted my needs at the time. Couple of months later, I needed a new digital camera, so I went through the same process again figured out that none were perfect.

Couple of months ago, I needed a new amp, so I started the same process, again! After too much hours trying to find the best amp, I finally stopped my choice on the Mustang V. Reading to this forum put me to the same feeling you are experiencing here. I red everything about the fizz and about all the problems that may or may not bother me. Finally, I decided to buy the Mustang and I'm now more than happy with it, like my TV, and like digital camera. The forums are there to post problems about material and get solutions. The fizz thread may had more than 1000 participations, but there is maybe 20 people in the package plus some that have not reported it. I hope that I'm clear enough because english is not my first language.

Yes I have reported a "problem" with the lights on my expression pedal, but right now it doesn't bother me at all as I have a workaround. At first, it was more to know if it was a normal behavior or really a problem. Right now, it is taking really good care of by Fender TSL. If you read the post, you will see how fast the support comes, I'm impressed.

my 2 cents
:wink:


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:28 am
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Amateur
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:18 am
Posts: 184
I purchased a Mustang I six months ago. I do love the channels management and the software approach. I read many opinions stating that this amp is not good for metal. I totally disagree, this is as good as any line6 product. So i think that you have to made your onopinion: go to the store and try it for a good 60 minutes at least, see and hear if it good for your pourpuse with your own hears and eyes.
No product is perfect and today you have no warranty that any product you buy will survive one single day after you purchased it. As for the building quality... for the price of a M3 you can buy 2 well built stompboxes: 20$ of electronics and 280$ of heavy metal cases! If you can face the fact that you have plastic jacks you will get a good bergain. if you like to be brutal with your amp maybe you better buy a 1000$ model.

Mustang is a good product (and a lot of fun) at an onest price, in myopinion.

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You can find all my Mustang tips here:
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An Unofficial guide to Fender Mustang Effects here:
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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:34 am
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:29 pm
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mordor74 wrote:
So i think that you have to made your onopinion: go to the store and try it for a good 60 minutes at least, see and hear if it good for your pourpuse with your own hears and eyes.


Be sure to get the manual while trying out. My Mustang II, which I like a lot, really only comes alive when tweaking the presets. The build-in presets are almost useless for my needs. If possible, ask for a laptop with fuse and internet connection, then it really shines and I bet you will love it. However, 60 min. is not enough as you WILL get hooked :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:48 pm
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Hell, I remember a few times heading to my local music store (Fender authorized dealer) with my netbook and Fender FUSE loaded and sat there for almost 3 hours demoing the different Mustang amps they had there with FUSE up. I had a lot of impressed customers, but eventually got kicked out of the store because I didn't actually WORK there and I was pretty much selling their products for them. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:02 am
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:37 am
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Location: England
Many thanks for replies. Some excellent points deserving comment.
Quote:
none of the people who made them seem to be willing to tell what settings they were using

Yeah, I can't figure out if it's a few people making a big fuss about a small issue, or a lot of people legitimately concerned about a big issue. It's good that the internet allows these issues to be discussed/publicised, the downside is it's hard to get an overall accurate picture.
Quote:
quality of the build, I treat this amp like it's a computer

Thanks, yes, that's a good way to look at it. I tend to treat things well generally, so I'm sure it will be fine.
Quote:
I spent weeks on forums trying to find the one that was perfect ... Couple of months later ... I went through the same process again

Haha, I think you just described me! Thanks, that puts a lot of things into perspective.
Quote:
Finally, I decided to buy the Mustang and I'm now more than happy with it

I suspect that is my best course of action too!
Quote:
go to the store and try it for a good 60 minutes

I'm going to pick up my new guitar tomorrow (a new Gibson LP Std, decided to treat myself to a new guitar/amp package :D), and will be doing exactly that with a few amps!
Quote:
Be sure to get the manual while trying out

Actually, the thing that tipped the balance for me towards the Mustang, over the Peavey Vypyr and Line 6 Spider, was that when I first tried one I could very easily get some nice sounds out of it without needing the manual. The on-amp controls (on the MIII etc) are very intuitive. Yes I'll use the manual and Fuse too, but I want everyday stuff to just be there, which it is on the Mustang - at least for me, compared to the others I tried.
Quote:
If you can face the fact that you have plastic jacks you will get a good bergain. if you like to be brutal with your amp maybe you better buy a 1000$ model.

As per my original post, I realise the Mustang is built to a budget and is good value at its price. I also said yes, I would be happy to pay more for it to be better. Ultimately yes I will probably pay £1000 (£, I'm in England :)) on some high-end kit (well, high-end by my standards!). For now, I want something in the middle while I decide what that high-end purchase should be. This post is all about whether the current Mustang, with all its benefits, great features, but also problems and limitations, is the right balance point.

I think everyone's kind replies here have helped convince me that it is. So thank you.


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:38 am
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
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strings10927 wrote:
There is a YouTube video out there and some audio clips, but none of the people who made them seem to be willing to tell what settings they were using, or specifics about how the clips were recorded so I really have nothing to compare it to. ...


The audio clips that I posted on youtube were first posted here and the person who made the fizzer explained how he made it perfectly clearly. And, Fender had all the opportunity in the world to ask questions or even check out the amp itself before the guy got rid of it.

There's no need to compare the fizz to anything. It is what it is.

John


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:48 am
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm
Posts: 253
Location: PA, USA
Not true. In reference to the fizz, people have been posting their specific patch info along with their samples of the fizz for over a year now. It's all over this forum as well as the web.

[quote="strings10927"]
There is a YouTube video out there and some audio clips, but none of the people who made them seem to be willing to tell what settings they were using, or specifics about how the clips were recorded so I really have nothing to compare it to. I just know mine sounds great.

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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:53 pm
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johnjaypl wrote:
The audio clips that I posted on youtube were first posted here and the person who made the fizzer explained how he made it perfectly clearly.

jwoertz wrote:
people have been posting their specific patch info along with their samples of the fizz for over a year now.

If you could provide a link or post the settings, that would be useful information. What I'm saying is I looked for the info and directly asked what settings were used and nobody could tell me. If you are here to say "go find it yourself", I already tried that and got nowhere.

I even asked you, johnjaypl, what settings were used for the demo you posted and your response on YouTube was:

"There's nothing wrong with the demo. It seems that some folks have trouble understanding it though; as you demonstrate. On the other hand, plenty of folks seem to be able to get it. The clean note is from a Mustang I (mine) recorded using the USB. Any way you record it, this amp doesn't fizz. The fizzy note is from a Mustang III which someone else recorded from the Mustang III's speaker."

I could not translate the above text into amp settings, maybe you can provide some clarification on how I can do that? :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:54 pm
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
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strings10927 wrote:

I even asked you, johnjaypl, what settings were used for the demo you posted and your response on YouTube was:

"There's nothing wrong with the demo. It seems that some folks have trouble understanding it though; as you demonstrate. On the other hand, plenty of folks seem to be able to get it. The clean note is from a Mustang I (mine) recorded using the USB. Any way you record it, this amp doesn't fizz. The fizzy note is from a Mustang III which someone else recorded from the Mustang III's speaker."

I could not translate the above text into amp settings, maybe you can provide some clarification on how I can do that? :roll:


Like I explained on youtube after you left your rude and belligerent comments,
when, among other things, you suggested that you were typing too fast for me.

Quote:
It's not the speed of your typing that's the issue, It's that way you "ask" a question. It doesn't inspire me to go out of my way to answer your question.


And a comment like:

Quote:
I could not translate the above text into amp settings, maybe you can provide some clarification on how I can do that? :roll:[/


Isn't going to get you one either.

And like jwoertz said:

Quote:
Not true. In reference to the fizz, people have been posting their specific patch info along with their samples of the fizz for over a year now. It's all over this forum as well as the web.


Is is really so hard to just be polite and ask a simple question when you don't understand something?


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:56 pm
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folks, ignore the troll

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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:33 pm
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 am
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strings10927 wrote:
folks, ignore the troll


I feel confident that the smart ones will.


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:03 pm
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Scott,

The Mustang Amp line is worth every bit you spend on it, fizz or no fizz, standard or substandard. That's the bottom line. Everyone's expectations differ and value is purely subjective. MY V head fizzes. Only one side of the speaker outputs will work at a time. I will keep and use this amp until i can't hold up a guitar because I've worked around both issues. It's WORTH it.

Heres some proof (with NO fizz. IN STEREO.)

Mixposure.com/shovelhead

stop by, have a listen.


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Post subject: Re: Disillusioned before purchase - what does the panel thin
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:05 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:29 pm
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I really like my Mustang II and don't think it will be replaced anytime soon, unless a better Mustang comes out :lol:

Initially I thought the distortion was not as good as my DS-2, but after messing with fuse and the high-gain amp-models with different cabinets, it sounds incredible for my music taste (Sabbath, Nirvana, G'n'R and such) :D

Also thought the Twin Reverb was a little too low in volume, but after using the great advice on this forum to put a compressor in the post section, that problem was solved too :D

Regarding the plugs, I use angled mini-jack male to mini jack female cables to connect my stuff (microphone mixer/preamp to aux and headphones to phones), so after this $10 "upgrade" I don't think I'm in risk of breaking the connectors.

My verdict: Great amp with some minor flaws which can be circumvented, great support (here!), great price. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED :lol:


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