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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:14 am
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Here is a case in point supporting the requirement that the volume pedal be placed as the first device in the signal chain:

I really like the Metal 2000 amp model at a Gain setting of 1. I also like to be able to roll off the drive to the amp to clean it up as much as possible. Yesterday I tried using the EXP mode of the volume pedal to control the GAIN pot on the amp, but the GAIN pot does not allow the GAIN level to go low enough.

Had the volume pedal been placed where it correctly belongs, this would not be an issue whatsoever.

As a cumbersome work-around, I've had to assign an overdrive stomp box before the amp, and control the LEVEL pot with the EXP pedal. Of course I've also had to try and adjust the overdrive settings so as to not upset my over all tone too much.

One thing I noticed in searching for a means to control the drive before the amp, is that Fender did not include any EQ at all that can be set before the amp, other than the wah. Strange. :o

Please Fender guys, fix this volume pedal issue, and place it as the FIRST device in the signal chain.

Are you aware that by placing the volume pedal after the amp as it is now, that any reverb or delay stomp box assigned before the amp will still have its tail cut off? :shock:


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:31 pm
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Hi poynt99,

This has been discussed here and we have addressed this functionality with a firmware update. Please see the link included below and give this FW build a try. We are out of the office today, but will be back in tomorrow and can assist further. Please let us know if we can help more. Thanks.

http://www.fender.com/support/articles/ ... tang-floor

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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:34 pm
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Fender TSL wrote:
Hi poynt99,

This has been discussed here and we have addressed this functionality with a firmware update. Please see the link included below and give this FW build a try. We are out of the office today, but will be back in tomorrow and can assist further. Please let us know if we can help more. Thanks.

http://www.fender.com/support/articles/ ... tang-floor


The latest version of Mustang Floor Firmware is v1.3. Actually, I had already updated my Mustang Floor with v1.3 prior to my last post.


Here were my findings after I updated to v1.3 firmware:

- Volume pedal position at v1.1 firmware--> last device in the signal chain.
- Volume pedal position after v1.3 update--> after amplifier model.
- Still no ability to assign the volume pedal position.

Sorry, but v1.3 does not correctly address the volume pedal issue. May I ask why the Fender programmers did not place the volume pedal at the front of the signal chain?


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:28 pm
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Because we were a majority asking for it. It was useless for most of us before and now, it's perfect.

I fully agree with you that the pedal placement should be configurable though.


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:23 am
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bigdee wrote:
Because we were a majority asking for it. It was useless for most of us before and now, it's perfect.


I've read through both threads dealing with this issue.

rmrossa wrote:
Ideally, to be musically useful IMO, the volume should act like an input volume as it does in virtually every pedal board that has a volume pedal.


Folks were asking for a resolution to the volume pedal issue, because it was cutting off the reverb and delay tails. The request was to have the volume pedal placed in front of the signal chain as per rmrossa's quote. The firmware update moved the volume pedal to the output of the amplifier, not to the front of the signal chain where it needs to be.

I fail to see how locating the volume pedal at the amplifier's output is "perfect". But I'd very much like to hear your argument.


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:25 am
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Quote:
the front of the signal chain where it needs to be

Different people want to achieve different effects. So it isn't always the case that the front of the signal chain is the right place. As bigdee said, the best solution would be if this were configurable.

Quote:
hear your argument

I don't think anyone's arguing about anything, and there's no need to. There was a problem with the original placement of the volume control cutting off reverb tails etc. Fender have made a change to address that. There are other problems caused by the new position of the volume control, and by the fact that it's not user-configurable. You and others have raised those issues and asked Fender to look into it.

As Alan from Fender often comments on this forum, he passes all such requests back to the product development teams, and (as we've witnessed with other user-requested changes making it into subsequent firmware updates), they do pay attention to input from this forum. Obviously we don't know their prioritisation or decision process for when (if at all) a particular feature gets implemented. But the request has been made, I'm not sure what the point of going over it again and again is?

If you want a specific personal response to your exact question, it may be better to politely ask Fender directly rather than this going round in circles in forum posts.


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:30 am
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scott-uk wrote:
Different people want to achieve different effects. So it isn't always the case that the front of the signal chain is the right place.

The front of the signal chain IS the best and most logical/useful place for the volume control pedal, particularly if you are NOT given a choice of where to assign it.

Quote:
As bigdee said, the best solution would be if this were configurable.

Actually, I've been saying that it should be assignable. bigdee was simply agreeing with me that it was a good idea. This IS a good idea as long as the front of the signal chain is one option for placement.

Quote:
I don't think anyone's arguing about anything, and there's no need to.

The term "argument" is a commonly used figure of speech, meaning one's point of view to support their assertions. I was asking for bigdee's argument or point of view that supports his assertion that the volume pedal placement is "perfect" as it now sits in firmware v1.3.

Quote:
There was a problem with the original placement of the volume control cutting off reverb tails etc. Fender have made a change to address that. There are other problems caused by the new position of the volume control, and by the fact that it's not user-configurable. You and others have raised those issues and asked Fender to look into it.

Apparently no one else was aware of the current problem with the v1.3 firmware until I posted it here. And apparently I am the only one requesting a correction to that problem.

Quote:
I'm not sure what the point of going over it again and again is?

The point of going over it again, is because the new v1.3 firmware does not correctly address the problem, and this was not made apparent until I made my post which brought the issue to light.

Quote:
If you want a specific personal response to your exact question, it may be better to politely ask Fender directly rather than this going round in circles in forum posts.

Indeed I am asking Fender to look into and hopefully correct this problem.

I am not going around in circles, other than having to repeatedly explain the problem to those not paying close enough attention.


Last edited by poynt99 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:44 am
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For those that are interested, here is an experiment to try:

1) Create a preset with any amp model. (ensure you are at v1.3 firmware).
2) Clear out all FX so that only the amp is present.
3) Add a reverb and delay BEFORE the amplifier.
4) Play through the preset and see how the volume pedal affects the reverb and delay tails.
5) Comment on your findings here.


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:02 pm
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How one other manufacturer does it:

Image

Note: PRE is at the front of the signal chain (not counting the noise gate), and POST is after the amplifier, assignable to either. The point being that PRE allows the volume pedal to be placed at the front of the signal chain. Not given the choice, PRE would be the preferred fixed position.


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:46 pm
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Hi Guys,

I will pass your feedback along to the engineers here. Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:46 am
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Hi Fellas,

Re the Volume Pedal placement - before or after the amp :-
For players who like to get subtle tonal changes by using
the guitar's volume pot - placing the pedal before the amp
would be less than ideal.
As it is now - after the amp - it offers the best of both worlds
with volume/gain control at amp input and overall volume control
at amp output.
However, options for before or after would keep everybody
happy.
Just a thought.

JimDub


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:54 pm
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Jimdub,

Prior to the existence of modeling amplifiers, guitarists did just fine without a volume control after the amplifier, didn't they? In fact, I doubt many ever desired to have one there even if it was possible, which of course, it wasn't.

Who says you can't use your guitar volume pot AND still have a volume pedal going into your amp? And actually, it's probably unnecessary to even have a volume pedal if you rely heavily on your guitar's volume control. In this case, you'd be better off assigning the pedal to some other parameter in your preset I think.

Just a thought. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:09 pm
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Hi Poynt99,
I guess they would have used whatever functions were available,
just like we're doing now. I mentioned the guitar volume control of
input volume to highlight the subtleties involved. I've used a volume
pedal into amp input all my playing days, starting in late 1950's with
a DeArmond Vol/Tone pedal, to the current Boss 50H, along with all
the usual pedals etc. . What I've learned in that time is that anything
placed between the guitar and the amp input, compromises the
guitar's natural tone and response, to a greater or lesser degree.
Today that has all changed.
The Mustang input, now receives the guitar's full volume and tonal
range, and the output of the modeled amp's volume can be controlled.
I hope Fender Tech. can modify the EXP1's placement for your needs,
- just as long as it's selectable between Before and After the amp !

Good luck,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:36 am
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Hi JimDub,

Thanks for your additional input here. And I want to let you know that I have personally passed this feedback to the lead engineer involved with this product line for consideration.

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(800) 856-9801


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Post subject: Re: Volume pedal cuts delay and reverb tails? Mustang Floor
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:53 am
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Hi TSL Fellas,

Thanks for your quick response and interest. Looks like the TSL Team
are "up for it" - ( Dublin slang for keen and ready to go. )
Looking forward to all the new Mustang/Fuse developments.

Jim


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