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Post subject: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:43 am
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Hi!

Two questions:

1.: Is there a way to set the FX Loop behind the internal FX of the Mustang Floor? As far as i see the FX Loop is fixed right after the input.

2.: i´d like to use the FX Loop as a part of an A/B switch. A should be the Floor´s main out for Amp A and B should be the FX Loop´s send to Amp B. Any disadvantage with this setup?

Thanks in advance

Claus


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 am
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Clausiii, the effects loop is not right after the input. It is after the amp modeling and I believe, before the effects (if not, it should be). Otherwise, plugging something into the effects loop would be no different signal chain wise than plugging something into the amp's front input. It would be useless as an effects loop for most purposes.
What you're trying to do could best be accomplished by a dedicated A/B switch.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:26 am
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Hi!
So i checked it and as far as i understand the signal flow of the Floor, the input signal comes dry to the hardware insert send, no Fx on it, no amp modelling. Just the dry signal. That means that the insert is right after the input. The donwside of it is that this signal will always be sent, it doesn't matter if the insert stomp is active or not, the send has always a signal, so it can't function as an AB switch by itself...


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:41 am
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Hi Guys,

The hardware FX Loop is fixed the "pre" position. Please let me know if I can assist further.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:47 am
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clausiii wrote:
Hi!
So i checked it and as far as i understand the signal flow of the Floor, the input signal comes dry to the hardware insert send, no Fx on it, no amp modelling. Just the dry signal. That means that the insert is right after the input. The donwside of it is that this signal will always be sent, it doesn't matter if the insert stomp is active or not, the send has always a signal, so it can't function as an AB switch by itself...


Well, if that's true, then Fender screwed up big time as the signal flow would be no different than plugging something into the front guitar input.
It should be like this;
Guitar ➢ Input ➢ Amp Modeling ➢ FX Loop ➢ Internal FX ➢ Output.

What you're describing would be this;
Guitar ➢ Input ➢ FX Loop ➢ Amp Modeling ➢ Internal FX ➢ Output.
That signal flow would be the same as;
Guitar ➢ Effects Unit/Pedal ➢ Input ➢ Amp Modeling ➢ Internal FX ➢ Output.

This configuration would be completely redundant and pointless.

I am planning on buying the Mustang Floor in the not too distant future but if you're right about this, I won't go near the thing.

Out of curiosity, when you say you "checked it", how did you go about doing that? I'm looking at the PDF manual as I type this response and nowhere does it describe the signal flow. I have to assume that Fender would not do as you described but stranger things have happened... like the way they implemented the effects control knobs on the amps - impractical for live gigs.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:13 am
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Alan Willey - Fender wrote:
Hi Guys,

The hardware FX Loop is fixed the "pre" position. Please let me know if I can assist further.



Really?! Well, There goes the idea of me buying a Mustang Floor. That's a ridiculous decision that Fender made. The only usefulness that the effects loop will have is the ability to enable or disable an external effect(s) via the preset or manual effects switching. Booo! Lots of people prefer delay and modulation effects in the POST position. Why box us in like that? This is really disappointing as I had such high hopes for the Floor.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:32 pm
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Quote:
Out of curiosity, when you say you "checked it", how did you go about doing that? I'm looking at the PDF manual as I type this response and nowhere does it describe the signal flow. I have to assume that Fender would not do as you described but stranger things have happened... like the way they implemented the effects control knobs on the amps - impractical for live gigs.


The Fx Send Signal does not change when you activate internal FX or Amp modelling so it must be in the first position after the input.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:04 pm
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I assume the FX Loop was kept in the analog domain to avoid multible A/D D/A conversion.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:42 am
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clausiii wrote:
I assume the FX Loop was kept in the analog domain to avoid multible A/D D/A conversion.


Well, I suppose that it's a way to keep the costs down too. Still, at the prices the other floor pedals are at, I believe that the Mustang Floor would have remained price competitive with a pre/post assignable loop.

The Mustang doesn't have a dedicated EQ in its effects complement so if you wanted to use an external one, it would be in the least effective position - pre gain.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:58 pm
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Alan Willey - Fender wrote:
Hi Guys,

The hardware FX Loop is fixed the "pre" position. Please let me know if I can assist further.


Alan (or any Fender Rep),

When you say "fixed" do you mean hardware/wired or software fixed? Could this be altered via a firmware or update to add the desired ability to choose pre or post positioning for the FX Loop either on a universal or a per preset basis (such as in competing "HD" products)?

Out of curiosity, what was "broken" with the way the FX Loop was implemented in the III/IV/V that needed this change? What benefits does this fixed pre-positioning bring that are not already there from the INPUT jack other than the ability to enable/disable?

Thanks.

Redd


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:12 pm
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ReddWolf wrote:
Alan Willey - Fender wrote:
Hi Guys,

The hardware FX Loop is fixed the "pre" position. Please let me know if I can assist further.


Alan (or any Fender Rep),

When you say "fixed" do you mean hardware/wired or software fixed? Could this be altered via a firmware or update to add the desired ability to choose pre or post positioning for the FX Loop either on a universal or a per preset basis (such as in competing "HD" products)?

Out of curiosity, what was "broken" with the way the FX Loop was implemented in the III/IV/V that needed this change? What benefits does this fixed pre-positioning bring that are not already there from the INPUT jack other than the ability to enable/disable?

Thanks.

Redd


Redd, please read my post above. Without another set of D/A and A/D converters, this cannot be fixed with a firmware update. I hope I'm wrong because it would be great if it could be so fixed. As far as I know, the FX loop on the MIII, IV and V is post modeling but pre effects. This means that on the amps, there is another set of the required D/A-A/D converters. If the Floor is based on the existing circuit board of any of these three amps, we may yet have reason to hope. I would love to buy a Mustang Floor... but not in its present condition.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 am
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Hi Guys,

Yes, the Fender Mustang Floor has a 'pre' position effects loop that is fixed or set hardware-wise in the 'pre' position. Thanks.

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Alan Willey
Fender Technology Support Lab
TSL@Fender.com
480.596.7195


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:32 pm
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Alan Willey - Fender wrote:
Hi Guys,

Yes, the Fender Mustang Floor has a 'pre' position effects loop that is fixed or set hardware-wise in the 'pre' position. Thanks.


Alan, you seem rather short on the answers for this...guess there is only so much you can say. :roll:

Pre-amp modeling, pre-effects, or pre-"everything" (basically another INPUT)?

How different is this from the effects loop set in the Mustang III amp?

Apparently something customers are concerned about (at least I am) and would like to know more about before shelling out more money to Fender.

Thanks...Redd


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:55 pm
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ReddWolf wrote:
Alan Willey - Fender wrote:
Hi Guys,

Yes, the Fender Mustang Floor has a 'pre' position effects loop that is fixed or set hardware-wise in the 'pre' position. Thanks.


Alan, you seem rather short on the answers for this...guess there is only so much you can say. :roll:

Pre-amp modeling, pre-effects, or pre-"everything" (basically another INPUT)?

How different is this from the effects loop set in the Mustang III amp?

Apparently something customers are concerned about (at least I am) and would like to know more about before shelling out more money to Fender.

Thanks...Redd


It is essentially right after the input but switchable and assignable to be on or off within a user created preset. Pretty much useless for me.

As far as I'm concerned, any effects loop on a pedal board modeler should be assignable to be Pre or Post Amp Modeling, Pre or Post the built-in Effects and most importantly, Pre or Post the Cab Sims. This last one is important in terms of a more accurate amp simulation. Think about it, on a regular (non-modeling) tube or SS amp that has an effects loop, the signal chain would be like this;
Guitar → Input → Preamp → FX Loop → Power Amp → Speakers (this would be the Cab Sim on a modeler).

Call me crazy but I think this signal chain layout makes the most sense. My old Boss GT-5, as much of a complete pain in the keester as it was to edit, was capable of this and it ROYALLY ticked me off when Roland did away with that feature on their subsequent pedal board models.

I'm not asking Fender to burden us with the same amount flexibility/complexity as the Boss GTs (frankly, they needed that flexibility just to get a decent sound for me) but some of that flexibility would really round out the Fender Mustang Floor. It would be leagues beyond what Boss or Line6 has to offer in terms of having just enough flexibility but simpler than the GTs and much better classic vintage tones than the Pods.
It would be completely killer.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Mustang Floor FX Loop
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:59 pm
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Hi Orcatraz,

So, the longer answer is that the Effects loop on the Fender Mustang Floor is placed in the pre-amp position as you see it in the Fender FUSE editor window along side the pre-amp effects. The idea here being that you can have your favorite effect patched into the Floor and control the effect on/off or bypass and save this setting within the current Preset you are using. I know that this a different approach than what some users have in mind. And I will definitely pass along all of the feedback here to the appropriate folks here at Fender. Thanks.

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