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Post subject: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work...
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:49 am
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Hopefully this is a simple fix....

I was using a post gain compressor for a lead boost but unfortunately it doesn't add any gain so it was a little too harsh of a tone in a live situation. I put a stomp overdrive in the patches but it seems that there is some type of limiter preventing the "level" parameter on the stomp from working. Even when I disconnect from fuse and adjust the level on the stomp overdrive from the amp it still does not make a difference.

Am I missing a "limiter" somewhere by chance?

Thanks in advance


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:39 am
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uh oh....no answers yet?

I am afraid that it may not be simple :cry:


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:43 pm
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whoule wrote:
Hopefully this is a simple fix....

I was using a post gain compressor for a lead boost but unfortunately it doesn't add any gain so it was a little too harsh of a tone in a live situation. I put a stomp overdrive in the patches but it seems that there is some type of limiter preventing the "level" parameter on the stomp from working. Even when I disconnect from fuse and adjust the level on the stomp overdrive from the amp it still does not make a difference.

Am I missing a "limiter" somewhere by chance?

Thanks in advance


It's not possible for a Post-Gain compressor to add any gain (increase distortion of the preamp). You have to set it to Pre-Gain for it to add any gain. Is the stomp overdrive in the Post Gain setting or Pre-Gain? In Pre-Gain, increasing the stomp's output level should increase the amount of distortion as well as the overall volume of the preset. In Post-Gain mode, the amp model's preamp section will be driving the stomp and determining how much distortion it produces as well as the stomp's drive knob.

As for the level not changing, how high a gain setting do have on the amp model? If it's in the Pre-Gain mode and is already cranked you may not see a much of a level change or just get a harsher sound.

There may be a hidden limiter in the internal digital signal flow to keep things from exceeding digital 0db and help keep the amp from producing horrible sounding digital clipping. But I'm just guessing. Still, at the end of the day, the Mustangs are digital devices and you cannot treat them as you would an actual tube amp. Those are much much more forgiving about improper gain structure - in fact they thrive on it. The resulting deafening loudness however is what makes it impractical.
O.


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:15 pm
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Orcatraz wrote:
whoule wrote:
Hopefully this is a simple fix....

I was using a post gain compressor for a lead boost but unfortunately it doesn't add any gain so it was a little too harsh of a tone in a live situation. I put a stomp overdrive in the patches but it seems that there is some type of limiter preventing the "level" parameter on the stomp from working. Even when I disconnect from fuse and adjust the level on the stomp overdrive from the amp it still does not make a difference.

Am I missing a "limiter" somewhere by chance?

Thanks in advance


It's not possible for a Post-Gain compressor to add any gain (increase distortion of the preamp). You have to set it to Pre-Gain for it to add any gain. Is the stomp overdrive in the Post Gain setting or Pre-Gain? In Pre-Gain, increasing the stomp's output level should increase the amount of distortion as well as the overall volume of the preset. In Post-Gain mode, the amp model's preamp section will be driving the stomp and determining how much distortion it produces as well as the stomp's drive knob.

As for the level not changing, how high a gain setting do have on the amp model? If it's in the Pre-Gain mode and is already cranked you may not see a much of a level change or just get a harsher sound.

There may be a hidden limiter in the internal digital signal flow to keep things from exceeding digital 0db and help keep the amp from producing horrible sounding digital clipping. But I'm just guessing. Still, at the end of the day, the Mustangs are digital devices and you cannot treat them as you would an actual tube amp. Those are much much more forgiving about improper gain structure - in fact they thrive on it. The resulting deafening loudness however is what makes it impractical.
O.


I have a feeling that you are right on with the limiter theory. Even with the gain cranked on an amp the level should still give a linear db change rather than a near on/off change. I am more accustomed to full tube rigs but have had a usable processor based rig for around 7-8 years (GNX3).


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:16 pm
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whoule wrote:
I have a feeling that you are right on with the limiter theory. Even with the gain cranked on an amp the level should still give a linear db change rather than a near on/off change. I am more accustomed to full tube rigs but have had a usable processor based rig for around 7-8 years (GNX3).


Well, I think it depends on the amp too. Some amps especially tube amps with high gain preamps are pretty much in natural compression mode at the upper reaches of their gain settings and the overall output level starts to level off. When you use a boost pedal on top of that all you get is mush and not much volume increase. On an amp like a twin or a deluxe with their lower overall gain, you'd likely hear a much more dramatic increase in volume using a booster pedal - even with the amp's volume dimed. My ears are ringing just thinking about it. :lol:

O.


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:57 am
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I threw a Boss OS-2 in front of the amp and then in the effects loop and it sounded like crap. I got a boost but it sounded like crap.

This is not simple anymore...


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:46 am
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I used my VF-1 to emulate an OD-1 pedal in front of the Mustang and the result was Ok, dont know if a distortion will act differently.

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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:19 pm
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whoule wrote:
I threw a Boss OS-2 in front of the amp and then in the effects loop and it sounded like crap. I got a boost but it sounded like crap.

This is not simple anymore...


No, it's not simple... it's a digital device and cannot be treated like a tube amp. Perhaps one day a digital amp in the same price range can be made so that it can be treated like a tube amp but that day is not here yet.

O.


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Post subject: Re: Using stomp overdrive and level parameter doesn't work..
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:19 am
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Orcatraz wrote:
whoule wrote:
I threw a Boss OS-2 in front of the amp and then in the effects loop and it sounded like crap. I got a boost but it sounded like crap.

This is not simple anymore...


No, it's not simple... it's a digital device and cannot be treated like a tube amp. Perhaps one day a digital amp in the same price range can be made so that it can be treated like a tube amp but that day is not here yet.

O.


But it is light and versatile...that is the reason that I bought this amp, the price was a bonus.
I will program an easy way to get a nice solo tone with boost, it will just be on different presets.


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