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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
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DArmstrong55 wrote:
I expect *any* Fender amp to at least be able to deliver a legitimate clean tone.

OK, $299. That's $299 I could have put towards a better amp. If they wanted me to know their $299 amp was such a cheap effort that a fizzy power amp would be acceptable, they could at least have labeled it Squier.
Hey DA, I completely and wholly respect your position on this - I'm just stating that what I use the amp for, it's been a complete Godsend in simplifying and *improving* my live tone and overall experience.

Here's my suggestion - you need to get Fender to take your amp back as defective and get your money back - simple as that. I would call them and explain your situation - be nice about it :) - and tell them it just doesn't work for you and you would like your money back. No matter what they tell you, keep asking for their boss until you get the answer you want. I've done this on numerous occasions with other companies and find they all eventually cave in because no one wants to deal with complaints. If you do hit a brick wall, call a local law school and see if they will send a letter on your behalf pro bono - many will. The last thing Fender wants is a class-action lawsuit over this matter. They'll easily pay out $299 to a few folks to keep this from happening. It would also help if you mention you won't disclose to anyone that Fender took your amp back - they'll eat that up ;)

Frankly, you need to consider Fender's position on this matter. I've owned a CyberDeluxe since 2005 - just a fantasic amp that I paid $800 for it - worth every penny. CyberTwin were going for around $1200 I think - also fantastic amps. Extremely reliable. It's clear to me that Fender improved the DSP technology, but cut some corners to get the price way down from the original *Cyber* line and ended up putting some cheap $@! power amps in the Mustangs to make the price point. That's where they blew it... and believe me, they know they blew it and I'm sure a few engineers got fired over it (or maybe purchasing?). But look at the horrible situation they are in - they've got thousands of these damn amps all over the world and they probably only made 20% profit on them at the most - that's only $60 a pop. How much would it cost to recall even half of those amps, pay for shipping, pay for a better power amp and fund the labor to replace it? A helluva lot more than $60 I reckon...it would also be a PR nightmare. That's why Fender is stonewalling on the issue - simple as that.

Call Fender, give them the message that you're not going away until they take their amp back and they'll pay you off to get rid of you. They don't mind paying off a few folks who are unhappy - they just don't want to pay off *everybody* whose unhappy ;) Fender is a business and you need to deal with them on that level. This is not an emotional issue to Fender as it is for people who have defective amps. Take the emotion out of it, get your money back and move on. All companies make mistakes, but they will always look for the cheapest way to rectify it.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:03 am
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Scorpaeon wrote:

KenB5 wrote:
To test for it just set up your amp to produce a clean tone ... no effects ... not much gain. Play real s-l-o-w ... hit a few single notes ... listen and pay attention. If ya have it it's easiest to notice on the lower strings as the notes decay ... it will be obvious. Once you know how it sounds on your amp ... if you listen closely ... you'll probably be able to hear it on all notes on all strings ... and perhaps all clean settings. BTW ... best to set-up the clean tones with FUSE ... rather than rely on the installed presets native to the amp.
KenB

Who plays their guitar like that? I admittedly am not much of a clean jazz player. But I can play some clean finger pickin stuff or SRV's Lenny and I can tell you I surely don't notice the fizz when I'm playing.

I am with KenB5 on this one. You have to compare it for what it is to other like products for what they are. Apples to apples people! If you do that and you find another product for the same price that you like better, then go get the other product. As for me, there's nothing out there that tops my MIII for $299... yet.


@Scorpaeon

Uhm ... that's not what I'm sayin'.

My point to mordor74 was to recommend that he remove all variables from his clean preset that could mask fizz ... and to play slow and listen to the notes decay ... because it will give him a better chance to hear the fizz and learn to recognize it if he has it.

Once he learns what to look for, and assuming he has it ... he can play normally, adjust the preset settings as he wishes and define the scope of the problem for his particular amp and his particular style ... and determine how much of a bother it is ... if any.

In regards to fizz ... in no way am I saying to compare how his amp sounds to any other amp. Let his Mustang stand on it's own based on his own expectations and experiences with the amp.

KenB


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:35 am
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tkdunn17 wrote:
Call Fender, give them the message that you're not going away until they take their amp back and they'll pay you off to get rid of you. They don't mind paying off a few folks who are unhappy - they just don't want to pay off *everybody* whose unhappy ;) Fender is a business and you need to deal with them on that level. This is not an emotional issue to Fender as it is for people who have defective amps. Take the emotion out of it, get your money back and move on. All companies make mistakes, but they will always look for the cheapest way to rectify it.


This may be the way I wind up going. I'm waiting to see what's announced by Fender and others at Namm next month. Right now Line 6 is sending out teasers about some kind of game-changing announcement, and their Spider IV series has suddenly gone on sale, so I surmise the word is to start moving out the current stock. If they come out with decent fizz-free clean modeling and Fender continues to give its customers the cold shoulder, I'll have no choice but to jump ship.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:09 pm
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TK, thanks for that. Very helpful. I think I'll do just as you suggest.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:15 pm
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Many of the recent comments about people not hearing the fizz when gigging serve to support the contention that you can play over the fizz and be happy. That is what Fender is banking on and it appears to be working for them. That fact doesn't change the reality that amp makers don't typically strive to design in non musical sounds that weren't created by the guitar or the signal chain (as in effects).

To have the effect of unintended noise in an amp that is yet to be released is cause to return to the drawing board. If it happens after thousands have been sold worldwide, that same design incentive that would have gone back to the drawing board pre release gets tweaked by a post release reframing of Fender's original expectation in the Mustang design. Suddenly, it's more like, you get what you pay for and so many of these posts demonstrate that the lowering of expectations that Fender has hoped for is coming through for them.

Think of it this way. Had Fender promoted these amps (III/IV/V) as really cool modeling amps that will deliver all sorts of great sounds, but also have a hard to track down and/or fix fizzy sound that the player didn't create but that can be overcome by playing loud or with overdrive/distortion, how many of us would have run out and and bought them? Probably not as many as are current owners, but Fender has succeeded in getting the same amps that would not have sold as well had people known up front about the fizz out into the market and then convincing many people that this is all they deserve at this price point.

This event should become a great example of how to recover from marketing a flawed product and getting away with it.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:20 pm
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KenB5 wrote:
Scorpaeon wrote:

I am with KenB5 on this one. You have to compare it for what it is to other like products for what they are. Apples to apples people! If you do that and you find another product for the same price that you like better, then go get the other product. As for me, there's nothing out there that tops my MIII for $299... yet.


@Scorpaeon

Uhm ... that's not what I'm sayin'.

My point to mordor74 was to recommend that he remove all variables from his clean preset that could mask fizz ... and to play slow and listen to the notes decay ... because it will give him a better chance to hear the fizz and learn to recognize it if he has it.

Once he learns what to look for, and assuming he has it ... he can play normally, adjust the preset settings as he wishes and define the scope of the problem for his particular amp and his particular style ... and determine how much of a bother it is ... if any.

In regards to fizz ... in no way am I saying to compare how his amp sounds to any other amp. Let his Mustang stand on it's own based on his own expectations and experiences with the amp.

KenB

Oh, terribly, terribly sorry. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Sorry about that. I wasn't paying attention to who said what earlier in the thread. I meant to be agreeing with FFXIhealer who said...

FFXIhealer wrote:
F-n A. I'm so sick and tired of people b*tching about A CHEAP AMP having problems. You know why? Because IT'S A CHEAP AMP!

I totally agree. But i'd like to clarify that I wish my amp didn't fizz. As much as love my MIII I'd love it all the more without the fizz. Who wouldn't? But I keeps it real. For what the amp is (an inexpensive modeling amp with a lot of variety of very good tone, decent effects, decent software, and decent recording capability), it's hard to beat.

"Let his Mustang stand on it's own based on his own expectations and experiences with the amp."

I couldn't agree with this statement more. But if it doesn't live up to his expectations, then what? He moves on to something different and compares it to his experience with the Mustang (its human nature) and then he makes a choice.

To be fair, you gotta compare it to a similar product (the Vypyrs, Spiders, Vox VTs, Cubes, etc.). In my humble opinion and as evidence of sales, I think the Mustangs, even with the fizz that most people have to go and "learn what to look for" before they even realize they have it, is still a choice that's very hard to beat.

Just reiterate... The fizz - not a good thing. But keep it in perspective. That's all I'm saying.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:12 pm
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I used to love my Mustang III until it recently acquired the Fizz everyone is talking about. The sounds to weight ratio is unbeatable. And the amp modeling is spot on. I just wish this Fizz problem could be fixed. It is driving me crazy ... and sadly I think I am out of warranty ... that's what I get for buying an amp with usb port =(


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:01 pm
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I just got my Mustang III in today. I really didn't do any research beyond a few magazine articles and watching the demos. I thought it would be my perfect solution: Lightweight, I could get rid of huge pedal board that is hard to travel with, could set up "songs" settings for playing quickly with friends and with headphones and not as ear piercingly loud as my Super Sonic tube amp... But it's all for not if when I get home tonight and plug it in only to hear FIZZ :(

How bad is it? Where should I be looking to hear it? I've watched the YouTube and listened to the Soundcloud link. So I'll keep an ear on that.

So does this not effect the Mustand IV? I can easily move on to it after I return this one. Real shame!


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:04 pm
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Also, any reports of the Mustang Floor pedal making fizz? If not, that might be a viable way to get the MIII usability but flexibility of speaker/amp choice.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:55 pm
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Played mine at practice again last night, have owned it since they hit the floor at GC. Tone to die for, if there is any 'fizz' I sure don't here it and it is nothing more than various 'noise' all my amps have ever produced.


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:37 am
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Okay, So I got my MIII set up last night, all plugged in and updated. I went through all the presets and was very happy with all that I heard.

I tried oh so very hard to hear what everyone says is FIZZ. I'm not hearing it. What I do hear when not holding the strings muted is 60 cycle hum that is on all three of my amps, likely caused by my home's electrical.

I experimented with doing a ground lift, hum got worse. So the amp is really well grounded. I'm sure, just like with my keyboards, some noise is coming from the LCD backlight (is it fluorescent or LED? LED would make less noise). This may be why many are not hearing it on the I & II, NO LCD.

I also tested side by side with my Super Champ XD (2008 model) and the cycle hum was actually louder on it than the new MIII! Same guitar, same cord, same AC Plug, etc.

One of the ways that I was able to tame this in the past with my Fender Super Sonic (lots o tube noise there~!) was to have an MXR noise gate at the end of my overdrive/dist/fuzz pedals but before mod and time effects on my pedalboard. I did go and turn up the noise gate to low on several "clean" presets and it appeared to eliminate the 60 cycle hum while not playing but you could hear a bit of it when playing one note and letting it decay. How often do I do that while playing or recording? Almost never. The rest I can take care of with software and on stage I beg one audience member to come to me and mention it for a sock in the teeth!

But when playing and playing loud on clean amp sounds....this thing sounds gorgeous! I hope mine doesn't "develop" fizz, but as of right now my Mustang III purchased 2/24 from Musicians Friend HAS NO FIZZ, ALIASED DECAY OR DIGITAL ARTIFACTS. Did fender fix? I don't know. But I'm not hearing what others are calling the above noise.

It's a trade off. I'd rather have MIII with switches replacing a very extensive and heavy pedalboard, lower cost, headphone capability for late night practice and FUSE!!!!

Although, I plan to buy a Hum Eliminator soon, as I need one for my recording and keyboards too.

I hope this helps someone out there make the decision to give it a chance!


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Post subject: Re: My take on the Mustang III
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:47 am
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I use a "Hum X" hum eliminator and it gets rid of the 60 cycle and any other noise coming from the power source.


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